Andrew and Daniel Hajduk, father and son of VOX-POP-ULI, discuss their family business specializing in custom printing, embroidery and laser engraving with host Rico Figliolini. The Hajduks share their journey through the evolution of printing technology and their approach to creating impactful branding for businesses.

Discover how this family-owned business adapts and thrives in a rapidly changing industry. Don’t miss their insights into the power of branding and the joy of bringing client visions to life. Join us to learn how a commitment to quality and community shapes the future of a business.

Resources:
Vox Pop Uli Website: https://vox-pop-uli.com/
Facebook: / voxpopuli.inc
LinkedIn: / vox-pop-uli
Instagram: / vox_pop_uli

Timestamp:
00:00:00 – Vox-Pop-Uli: Adapting to Changing Technology
00:03:52 – Customizing Solutions for Clients
00:06:05 – Branding Importance for Clients
00:08:56 – Providing Seamless Solutions for Businesses
00:11:38 – Delivering Quality and Value in Business Relationships
00:14:37 – Diversifying Marketing Strategies for Business Growth
00:18:11 – Commitment and Adaptation in Challenging Times
00:22:00 – Hiring for Attitude and Growth Mindset
00:23:59 – Fostering a Growth-Oriented Workplace Culture
00:26:49 – Navigating Deadlines and Expectations in the Promotional Products Industry
00:28:45 – The Evolving Landscape of Business and Community Growth
00:30:55 – The Rise of Retail Density in Peachtree Corners
00:33:45 – Navigating Family Dynamics in the Workplace

Podcast Transcript

00:00:00 – Rico Figliolini

Hey, everyone. This is Rico Figliolini, host of Peachtree Corners Life. Appreciate you being here with us, listening to this either on a podcast through Apple or iHeartRadio or Spotify or on Facebook on our live stream or YouTube as well. So I have some great guests today, father, son, Andrew, and Daniel Hajduk from Vox Pop Uli. It’s a business that I’m highly familiar with, the space and the industry. I have done some work in it a little bit early on when I was younger. God, when I was younger. But, you know, you do need experience in this business, and it doesn’t change. So, you know, putting things on objects, creating marketing collateral, this is what you all guys do, right? I mean, so tell us a little bit, Andrew, where this all goes.

00:00:46 – Andrew Hajduk

So, hi, my name’s Andrew Hajduk, and I’m the president of Vox Pop Uli. I started the company in 1996. At that time, I had a partner. We worked for a company that was kind of similar to this. Although the technology’s changed, but we thought we were smarter, we thought we were better and decided to go out on our own. We had a couple of clients that followed us and since then have always just worked to be super responsive to our clients and go where the technology is going. You know, when we started the company, digital printing didn’t exist. And we’ve gotten big into digital printing. We’ve gone into embroidery, into laser engraving. and all the different things that help companies communicate their brand.

00:01:29 – Rico Figliolini

Yeah, it’s interesting. I think it was Curiosity Lab. Someone from there that told me, listen, I think they tried to do Louisville Sluggers, the bat. And they needed something printed on it. And they were like, you guys can’t do this, can you? I forget what the quantity was ridiculously small considering, you know, it could have been a thousand or 500, but it was a small number. You guys were able to do that too, I think. Just knock it out.

00:01:51 – Andrew Hajduk

We’re actually on the next generation of that, and I don’t want to spoil anybody’s surprise until that one gets unveiled. But, yeah, we did the first generation that the city used in some travel and some promotions, and it was a pretty cool combination because it was a little mini bat that was engraved and printed with city branding with the logos for Curiosity Labs and some of the city stuff.

00:02:13 – Rico Figliolini

It’s cool. I saw that on my little tour that you guys gave me, so I appreciate seeing that because that sort of got my mind moving along about what else can he imprint? Like if I give him something, can he do it?

00:02:22 – Andrew Hajduk

That’s, that’s, you know, one of the things that we love to do. And one of the things that we love about this location and where we’re at and serving the people that we do is we love getting people in here because you get to see what we do. But once you walk around, you see that and you’re like, okay, well, could we do this? Or could I do that? It’s always a lot of fun to walk people through here because they see what we do. Then they start to kind of make it their own and see their logo on things.

00:02:52 – Rico Figliolini

And Daniel, you’re in marketing and you’ve been here about two and a half years with your dad, I think, right?

00:02:57 – Daniel Hajduk

Yeah, about two and a half years. The summer of 2022, after I completed four years in the Navy, I wanted to… I realized I wanted to get back to something like this, something that doesn’t feel like work most of the time, something that you’re growing something constantly and doing something different every single day, like the bats. I mean, that morning, no idea we’d print on bats, but that came up the next day, and we have bats going, and we’re even in the back right now working on the new edition, and it’s really fun.

00:03:26 – Rico Figliolini

You can’t share what that is?

00:03:30 – Andrew Hajduk

Not yet. I don’t want to get in trouble with the city. First dibs.

00:03:34 – Rico Figliolini

I’m just kidding. Did the military background help you a little bit?

00:03:39 – Daniel Hajduk

Yes. One thing I like to, I always ask them and question them on why we do things a certain way. Why do we do it like this? How did you learn how to do this? Now, why is it like this? So it gave me an experience of… One thing the military is really good at is structure with things. And I love mixing that, the strengths of that with our kind of complete customization on everything we can do. And so really just maximizing what we can do for clients, what we can do for ourselves at the best potential.

00:04:10 – Rico Figliolini

A bit of problem solving sometimes when a client comes to you and you’re not sure, they’re not sure maybe, and you have to guide them a little bit.

00:04:18 – Andrew Hajduk

It’s trying to figure out, and we ask a lot of questions, and there’s folks that we work phenomenally well with, and we’ve got some really good long -term relationships. And sometimes it’s tough because in that initial period, we do ask a lot of questions because I’m going to try to help you get to what you’re trying to do. And I’ve got another customer who says, hey, one of the things I like about you guys is you give me what I need, not what I always ask for. But that’s what we’re trying to figure out is, okay, how are you going to use this? Who’s going to be putting it together? How’s it going to be distributed? All of those things to try to maybe get to a better idea. Maybe not. And maybe what we originally started with is the best way, but we try to get there.

00:05:02 – Rico Figliolini

Is there a philosophy that you want to share? I mean, I sense a philosophy in here.

00:05:07 – Andrew Hajduk

We do whatever it takes to make a customer look successful. And that is the greatest reward for us. I mean, I love the project business. We love doing things. We’re not coming in here. Daniel mentioned the bats, different things. We don’t come in here and do the same thing every single day. But there’s no greater reward than when we see our stuff on TV at the Army-Navy game, when we did a bunch of stuff for the Sun Bowl, when we saw that come back and clients are sending us pictures or showing us how things work out. And which ultimately leads to the greatest reward of all is somebody saying, hey, here’s somebody else in my company that you should be working with.

00:05:52 – Rico Figliolini

It’s interesting. I mean, obviously, you’re based here in Peachtree Corners, state of Georgia, but your stuff goes all over the place. Trade shows in Vegas, I’m sure, West Coast and all over the place. What type of clients? I know in sales, you always ask, I guess, what’s your preferred prospect, your lead? Like, who is your client? Who would you say, even if it’s a variety of clients, how would you describe that?

00:06:17 – Andrew Hajduk

So I think, and it sounds kind of funny to say this sometimes, but the best client is first and one that has a similar mindset that we do, that believes that it’s important to brand. It’s important to get your name, your logo, your look out there. There’s a lot of guys out there, and a big portion of our business is we work with a lot of retailers. And we have retail customers that don’t market a ton. They don’t worry about what the appearance of the store is and things like that. And, you know, that ultimately gets reflected. But if you want to convey a certain image, right, and it doesn’t mean you have to spend a lot of money, but if your branding is important, if consistent branding is important, if getting the word out there, right, and even for our B2B clients, we’ve got some great B2B clients here in Peachtree Corners right behind us as well. And they care. They want their employees to feel special. They want their associates to look good. It’s important that their people look good in the marketplace. And that’s the best kind of client.

00:07:21 – Rico Figliolini

I’ve been following you a bit on LinkedIn and commenting and engaging a little bit on some of your posts. I saw one that had a deal, I think it was with truck wraps, which really hit home for me because I totally don’t understand why people can’t get it into their head there. After three years of something, you really do want to refresh it. It’s almost like a restaurant that opens up in another restaurant space and keeps their awnings in sort of the three -year -old, four -year -old decorations outside rather than replacing it all. This way you look like a new place. How do you do that? How do you work with people that, you know, I’m sure you’re doing other things with them, but you may say to them, you know, that awning needs to be replaced or something.

00:08:08 – Andrew Hajduk

I try to bring it up. We probably wrap an average of 600 vehicles a year for our clients. And one of the questions that we often get asked is, how long is it going to last? And my response is, it’s going to last far longer than its useful life, meaning that it’s going to stop disrupting the environment. We have a phrase that I like to use around here. I said, you’ve got to be tastefully obnoxious. Right? You’ve got to get people’s attention because over time, everything starts to blend into the environment. And so, you know, if it’s we don’t think of our vehicles in terms of marketing budget. And quite honestly, it’s the lowest cost per impression that you can get out there. And we should be looking at it and not just rewrapping a vehicle either when we get a new one or when we wreck it.

00:08:56 – Rico Figliolini

I mean, that makes sense. I mean, they drive their vehicles around, they park. Maybe in front of their retail place of their restaurant and catering. I mean, there’s a value for it to look a certain way. You don’t want it to look dingy if you’re providing food. Like, there’s just a real value, I think, in how you present yourself. So when it comes to marketing then, how do you approach companies? How are you getting your business leads?

00:09:24 – Daniel Hajduk

So a lot of our business has come from other clients of ours. So one person works at X company. They either move to that company or have a friend at this company. They use us there. So it’s kind of just a domino effect of people just notice what we can do for them. And it just keeps growing and keeps growing and keeps growing. Beginning of last year, we took a different approach and we really got aggressive, I would say, with trying to really focus here in the Atlanta area to service everyone around us and just really grow with everyone. Like our neighbors next door or someone two miles down the road or anyone here in the city, we know that there’s opportunity because there’s so many great businesses in the area and everyone needs what we’re doing. And we know so many people struggle with something that shouldn’t be a hassle on their end. It should be something they send to us and we take care of and we deliver beyond their expectations.

00:10:18 – Rico Figliolini

I was reading some of your branding in the foyer, in the entrance. And one of the lines was to, something that’s used quite a bit, but it’s interesting, not everyone follows through, turnkey operation. Make it silly stupid for people. Make it so easy for them that when you deliver the job, it’s done, they don’t have to worry about anything.

00:10:43 – Daniel Hajduk

We had a, this is why we see that there’s all this opportunity here and just Peachtree Corners alone. We had a lady come in from a company that’s on the other side of that intersection down there, and she called in and mentioned that she needed help with hats because the hat order she had got canceled on someone online right before the event, and they weren’t going to be able to get it to her in time. She called in and said, hey, come in, let’s take a look, and we’ll figure this out. She came in about 10 minutes later, and within five minutes, we had a hat picked out. We gave her pricing. We had proofs to her that evening. And we had the job two or two days later. So when I tell someone, getting a bucket of hats shouldn’t be difficult for your event. Getting employee apparel shouldn’t be difficult. Having a trade show backdrop shouldn’t be difficult to get. Whatever you need, it should not be hard. You should not have to be worrying about checking every step for approval. We’ll tell you what we’re going to deliver, tell you when. We’re going to ask you questions. We’re going to need answers. That’s just to guide us to the right product and the right timing.

00:11:47 – Rico Figliolini

Cool. When you’re doing this and there’s value to what you do, right, Andrew? I know pricing is always an issue. Well, not always an issue. I mean, the way I work is that I don’t go for the cheapest. I don’t go for the most expensive. I go for the quality, the delivery, somewhere where I trust that. I can be waiting like all of a sudden I have a job and then that stuff doesn’t show up. But some people worry about pricing. And, you know, how do you make sure you hold your value? You know, because there is a value to what you do.

00:12:25 – Andrew Hajduk

So, you know, I always tell people we should always be in line. You know, are there times we’re going to be more expensive? And if you shop hard enough, you’re going to find something cheaper. We like to tell people we give them back the greatest thing that we can, which is time. You were talking earlier about managing things and going through it and stuff like that. And you shouldn’t have to. It should be straightforward. It should be easy. You shouldn’t have to worry if your colors are correct or is there an instruction sheet with putting the hardware together or am I violating any brand guidelines? We work with a lot of national companies where brand guidelines are important. So we try to do that and we try to be very fair. Quite honestly, you asked about philosophies and things like that and call any of my long-term clients and they’ll tell you that they’ve heard me say this line a thousand times. Here’s the way I look at it. In every relationship, you have a bucket of money. The more I can give you for that, the better we all are. You grow your business, that bucket continues to grow. There’s more opportunity for us to win and we try to have very long-term relationships based on that.

00:13:33 – Rico Figliolini

Going back to what you said, Daniel, referral business because that’s what you were talking about before, right? You’re doing a good job. People refer you. They go to another place. They know the experience with you. You’re going to be the person in that door, in that new company. When you’re dealing with a new business that’s coming in, whether it’s a retail place, restaurant, let’s say that type of business, storefront, let’s say. They’re brand new. They’re not a franchise even because you know, they want to do their own thing. How do you approach a business like that when they come to you? Are there certain staples that you think they should be doing? How does that work?

00:14:15 – Andrew Hajduk

100%. Over the, I had to figure this out for something a couple years ago. And with all the rebrands that we’ve done, all the acquisitions and all the stores we’ve opened over the years, from Wolf Cameras to Aaron’s to Mattress Firms and so forth. We’ve opened over 7,000 stores. And all the way from guys that they’re opening their first unit to their 2,000th, whatever it is. Especially in retail, and I think it’s more important than ever, there’s two things that you have to do. One, you have to create omnipresence, right? So whether that’s being on Facebook, on social media platforms, but also in print and out in the community. We see all the time, right? You’re driving down the road and you drive past a shopping center and you’re like, huh, when did they get there, right? How long have they been there? And maybe they just opened, but they didn’t do a good job of disrupting the environment. I believe big time in guerrilla marketing, getting out there with the businesses. If I was a local restaurant here, I would be going and knocking on doors, especially as people are returning to work, giving them lunch specials, trying to get people out of the office just to drive that traffic. Too many times, and I tell all of my clients this, is we can’t just sit back and wait for people to come. We’ve got to get out there and let the community know we’re there.

00:15:38 – Rico Figliolini

Yeah. I can see what you mean by that. I mean, they’ll be doing the magazine business, for example, right? Which is print, digital, and everything else that comes in there. So we talk to a lot of people, and everyone has their philosophy. And certain businesses work a certain way. Maybe social media works better for them than print. There’s a variety of different things, right? So we tried to produce content as well. But the interesting part to me is this. There’ll be a business in business for six to seven months. They’re all in on social media. And then all of a sudden, six, seven months, eight months later, they’re realizing that’s not working. And they’re not doing anything else but social media. Maybe they’re not going to the festivals. Maybe they’re not going out into the community, which they would need branding to be able to do that. You can’t just show up naked, right? You need that stuff to be able to be out there. I mean, when I participated in Peachtree Corners Festival, you all did my table drape and attire and stuff. I can’t tell you how many people stopped at the booth or passed the booth to say, wow, look, yeah, we get that magazine or we get the sister publication or we listen to their podcast or something. So it was a good, visible place to be.

00:16:56 – Andrew Hajduk

But think about the, you know, you’re older like me. So think about when we used to go to the mall when we were kids and stuff like that. How did the restaurants, how did the Chinese restaurant or the pretzel place or any of those places drum up business? They had people come out from behind the counter and go up and hand people samples and things like that. And that’s the kind of stuff that businesses have lost. Social media has to be a part of it. It absolutely does. But you have to have other things as well. I mean, I see so many businesses that just rely on a single channel of marketing and don’t worry about getting the word out. And we’re all super busy. We drive the same route every single day, stuff like that. And you don’t notice stuff. It’s our job as marketers to disrupt the environment so that when you’re driving by the shopping center, you’re sitting there in the light, you’re going, holy cow, I didn’t realize that that was there. They must be new. I’m going to stop in and try them.

00:17:54 – Rico Figliolini

Yeah, no, perfect. I love that. You’re right. I remember reading, I think it was some ones, the franchise manual for people that started the franchise, right? And this was some years back. I don’t even know if they do it now. But one of the things they did say in there was go check out all the commercial businesses within a two-mile radius. and then within one mile, and go bring them free lunch. Every one of them, free lunch. And, you know, someone may look at that and say, well, that costs money. And it’s just like, think about it. When you’re home and you cook for your guests, and they say, this is wonderful. Don’t you want the same thing? So, yeah, people are afraid, I think, sometimes to spend the money in, but they’ll spend the money in ridiculous ways, but not in other ways.

00:18:41 – Andrew Hajduk

To me, it’s a commitment thing, right? If we want people to make a commitment to us, we have to make a commitment to them. Somebody’s going to have to go first.

00:18:50 – Rico Figliolini

And you started this in 96, you said? 96. So that was, I moved here in 95, actually. That was the year of the Olympics. Olympics is kind of funny that way. I remember back then I used to sell commercial sheet-fed printing. You could be a lousy salesperson and still make good money. And after things stopped around, I forget what year it was now. Things just got a little bad. And salespeople, you could see the tree shake and all the bad ones fell out. Did you feel that way sometimes?

00:19:25 – Andrew Hajduk

We’ve gone through a couple different challenges, right? So we didn’t start because of the Olympics. We had some Olympic work and things like that. But because of when we started, we were a little bit behind the curve there. So a lot of that stuff was already going on. We were fortunate and we had two clients that pushed us to really get the company going and get it off the ground that, you know, so we weren’t kind of in that survival mode from day one. But then you had the dot-com crash, right? In 99, 2000. And there were so many people that were printing just a bunch of stupid stuff. And, you know, you had to get through that. So that was kind of, I always say it’s a flush that we need, but it’s painful to go through.

00:20:09 – Rico Figliolini

Did you see the same thing in 2008?

00:20:11 – Andrew Hajduk

Absolutely. That’s the next one I was going to go to. You know, we were, my two biggest clients in 2008 were Aaron’s Sales and Lease and Mattress Firm. And both Ken Butler and Steve Stagner that ran those companies respectively, they were very much forward thinking. And I remember Steve saying, we’ve got to dial up the advertising. We have to work harder today to get the customer’s dollar than when it was easy. And so, you know, for us, it was good there. But we saw a lot of guys, and especially as digital printing’s gone on, we’ve been on the cutting edge of that since day one. And you’ll see different people jump in, right? Every sign shop comes in and they’re going to buy this. Every T-shirt shop comes in and they’re going to buy this. And it goes on and on. And those are the things that, you know, create some price pressure because everybody wants to give it away. But then during those times, it becomes real tough and you see people start to fall out.

00:21:03 – Rico Figliolini

Printing was that way too. Yeah. And I remember I used to tell the owner of the print shop I was at, commercial printer, $3 million in sales and stuff. Business cards are loss leaders. I’d give them away to be able to walk into a company with 600 employees. Because the minute you got into that hallway, you’re like, everyone’s coming out and saying, do you do this? Do you do that? You don’t even, you’re not bidding anymore at that point. You’re just getting the work.

00:21:29 – Andrew Hajduk

Yeah It was, it’s a, you know, again, when we used to go out more and more, but it was, you could just walk around and pick up back in the day before email and stuff like that. You just walk around and pick up jobs.

00:21:44 – Rico Figliolini

Yes. It’s not like that anymore. So I think, you know, 2008 was a bad one, but I think things have gotten progressively better. Maybe we’re heading into something. Who knows? You know, I mean, people talk about like another real estate, except commercial real estate this time versus residential bubble or something. But when you’re hiring salespeople, what do you look for in them?

00:22:11 – Andrew Hajduk

The number one thing we look for in anybody we hire is attitude. I want to hire people that want to grow. I’ve never had anybody not come to work here because of the money, and I’ve never had anyone leave here because of the money. Does that mean we’re the highest paying people out there? No, I think we’re fair. But we’re also tough on the front end with trying to find people. But I really want people that want to grow. It’s one of our, you had mentioned our boards, our vision boards out in the lobby. That’s one of the things that we look for, right? One of the things that we tell people, we’re into personal development because I think it’s important that for the company to achieve its goals, for the company to go to where it needs to go, you need to achieve your goals concurrently with that. You need to be on that right path. It can’t just be about working harder, working harder, and working harder. You’ve got a vision of where you want to get to. Daniel’s got a vision of where he wants to get to. Everybody here has got a vision of where they want to get to. And they’ve got one, three, and five-year goals. When we can marry those together, that’s when the magic happens.

00:23:20 – Rico Figliolini

So when you’re doing that, and there’s a cross-section of people that you’re dealing with, right? Age groups, diverse people and such. And hiring not just salespeople, but employees, right? You want to be able to hire an employee and know that they’re going to do the right job, even if it’s a part-time job, even if it’s a summer job. Do you put the same type of philosophy into that?

00:23:42 – Andrew Hajduk

100% for every single person here.

00:23:45 – Rico Figliolini

You expect them to show up on time, hopefully, and do the work that they’re supposed to do?

00:23:50 – Andrew Hajduk

We do. And so the back one of that happens first, right? And look, nobody’s sitting here watching door swipes and things like that to sit there and go, oh, Daniel got here at 8:05 today. I better go talk to him or, you know, whatever. I want to hire people that understand we have a job to do. Some days we have to stay late. We had a client that was in a jam the other night. A lot of us were here till about eight o’clock trying to help them out, right? Am I looking? No. We just, we want that mindset of people that want to grow, that want to be better and continue on. And I think, you know, are we a hundred percent at the hiring on that? No, absolutely not. But we continue to get better and better in that, and especially making sure that we’re good on that on the front end. And it’s worked pretty well for us.

00:24:38 – Rico Figliolini

We were talking a little bit about social media before. I’m assuming that’s your ball of wax, if you will.

00:24:44 – Daniel Hajduk

Somewhat. Megan, my sister as well, she’s the main one who manages all that, but we’re trying to come up with some plans to, because ourselves, we have to put ourselves out on social media because there’s nothing you can’t get out there. You have to have social. So you can’t just do print. You can’t just do social, you have to do both because you’re missing one audience. You can’t just do a direct mailer because not everyone’s going to react to a mailer. You can’t just do a TikTok. Not everyone’s going to be on TikTok. No one’s going to be on TikTok soon.

00:25:07 – Rico Figliolini

If that goes through.

00:25:11 – Daniel Hajduk

But the impact of what you can do with the mix of both. So if you start seeing those trucks around and your vehicles around and the signage and the sponsorships around, but you also see their TikTok that’s funny or their Instagram reel or whatever, their Facebook posts. It gets your attention. They’re in your mind. So we’re really trying to dial that in with ourselves because we do a lot of cool stuff here. And like we said, when we bring people in to show them something, no one usually leaves here underwhelmed. Everyone’s like, wow. I had a guy that I saw again for the first time a couple nights ago for the first time since he was here. He was telling people, you guys have to go there and check it out. It’s impressive. People think, I got people who give it nicknames and everything because they think it’s just some amazing place where all the things come to life. And they say, hey, I’m looking for this. Like you said, the bats. Even if it’s just a banner, it’s just so cool to see it in action. And that’s what we’re trying to put out there.

00:26:10 – Rico Figliolini

It’s funny because when I walked in the back, I’m thinking, this is big, but it’s not huge. But you have so much packed in there that you’re doing. Every square foot has a usable, there’s a reason for something to be there. And yeah, I felt the same way. I felt like my mind was going, what can I use this for? What can I, what can I bring here? Who do I know that I want to market to that I could do their marketing and then, and use what you’re doing here.

00:26:39 – Daniel Hajduk

That’s the fun thing is literally you said, how do we, when we start working with someone, how do, what do we start with? Usually we don’t have to dig too deep. Someone needs something, whether it is just some signage, whether it is apparel, whether it is a marketing piece to use at an event or a promotional item. We start somewhere, then we can grow into the rest. So you don’t have to be able to, let’s do everything in a box. No, just come in and do one thing, and with time naturally, it’ll take over.

00:27:07 – Rico Figliolini

You do design work in-house also, I think, right? And you’re setting expectations for people because a lot of businesses are busy themselves and all of a sudden their deadlines become your rush deadlines. And, you know, they’re waiting until the last minute and then like, we need it tomorrow. And you guys are stuck like delivering. Setting expectations the right way, I guess.

00:27:32 – Andrew Hajduk

That’s one of the biggest challenges. Like we always joke around here, you know, I mean, the CFP is here on Monday night. I am sure that, you know, tomorrow we’re going to hear something about, well, we just about got it ready. Right? And it’s like, they’re not going to move the day to the football game, but we still have to get the stuff done.

00:27:49 – Rico Figliolini

Right, right. You mentioned, we talked a little bit about community involvement. So I just want to go back there for a little bit. You’re on the, I think it was the Development Authority?

00:27:59 – Andrew Hajduk

Yeah, the DDA, the Downtown Development Authority.

00:28:01 – Rico Figliolini

In the city of Peachtree Corners.

00:28:02 – Andrew Hajduk

Yes, sir.

00:28:04 – Rico Figliolini

You’re seeing a lot of things. You know, obviously, some of it is, it’s all development work, not redevelopment per se. Although some things could be considered redevelopment. So do you look at that and does that give you a different perspective when you come walking into your business?

00:28:21 – Andrew Hajduk

Yeah, it does. It all kind of plays together because you see one of the things that we’ve been going through and I think that you’re going to see a ton of this. We’re seeing it with our customers in and outside of Peachtree Corners, but you see it in Tech Park and different things, is the return to work mandate, which is huge.

00:28:40 – Rico Figliolini

Are you seeing that?

00:28:41 – Andrew Hajduk

We have several Fortune 50 clients that have gone five days in office beginning January 6th. So I think you’re going to continue to see that trickle down, right? As the new administration takes hold, you know, in the next week or so, that’s one of their big things and stuff. And personally, look, I believe that there needs to be way more return to work, right? There are some jobs that can be done, but not every job. You see what we do here. I can’t put printers in people’s house. So we have to come in. But I think that that’s important. So as you see those trends involved in the city, right, and the kind of businesses that are coming in, then we start thinking, okay, how does that impact our business? How does that impact our marketing efforts? Right? What opportunities does that give us and things like that? But I also like seeing from a community perspective, having the right mix. This city has done a really good job of balanced growth with the kind of retail they have, the kind of business that they’re bringing in. And it’s just a really nice balance to drive around and see. I’ve seen other cities where every single shopping center has a vape store, a nail salon, and a massage parlor. And there’s seven of them within a mile, but they don’t have any of the big national retailers. They don’t have the tech companies and all of that other stuff to come in and you’ve got to have that balance in a community for it to survive.

00:30:15 – Rico Figliolini

And it’s a bit different. We were talking just before we started about Johns Creek, Sandy Springs, Dunwoody, Chamblee, Brookhaven. I mean, all very different from each other. I mean, when you look at it and compare it to here, different types of stores, even different people.

00:30:32 – Andrew Hajduk

Absolutely. And so, you know, not to pick on them, but, you know, Johns Creek was home for us. It’s where all three of my kids grew up and where my wife and I lived for 28 years. And they were super strict on the signs. And a lot of national retailers didn’t want to come to Johns Creek. It was tougher for them. And the way then every shopping center got developed. Literally within our house, you know, when we moved, because I would go out and run, I could run past seven vape shops and not even be at a mile. Not that there’s that, you know, again, you’ve got to have that right balance and stuff like that, but it can’t all be that because we are going to see a lot of empty retail if that’s the only places that we can go in.

00:31:16 – Rico Figliolini

I mean, eventually, I mean, so if we talk about the Forum, for example, they had 17 stores empty, storefronts empty. I would drive through and I would literally count how many stores were empty. Now, I don’t think there’s, I think there’s maybe one or two that still doesn’t have a sign lease to that I’m aware of. Not that they share their information with me, but it’s almost completely filled. And there’s more density coming, right? So the apartment Solus, I think, is going to be opening as soon as they finish. Broadstone down the block is like 95% at least. And they were leasing really fast. I mean, faster than they thought, ahead of schedule. So that just tells you that people do want to be here because it’s a straight shot down to into Atlanta from Peachtree Parkway. So if you’re going to go into work, this would be a good place.

00:32:09 – Andrew Hajduk

And you have a Town Center. I mean, let’s not, you know, and as we moved, the business moved here in 2005, and that was before Peachtree Corners existed, we were still in Norcross. And then in 2012, when the city became a city, so that’s why I say we’ve been here since that time. But we were just down the road in Northwoods. I didn’t see it when they developed Town Center. I was over there maybe a year or so ago for a Peachtree Corners Business Association breakfast. Eight o’clock in the morning, I was amazed. There was people out there doing yoga on the grass and things like that. And if you go by there on a Friday night when they’re doing something and you’re trying to pick up pizza or something like that, it is absolutely jam-packed. So they have that center that everybody comes in and these things to help gather around, which is just really a part of the smart development of it.

00:33:10 – Rico Figliolini

I can’t wait until Paulitan Row opens. That’s going to be great. And I think it’s Millie’s Pizza, a new pizza place in the jewel box right up front there. Alright, just to sort of wrap up a little bit. I mean, father, son, sister. How many other members of the family?

00:33:18 – Daniel Hajduk

And my wife works here, too

00:33:22 – Rico Figliolini

Family affair. You all work. This is cool. How many employees does Vox Pop Uli have?

00:33:33 – Daniel Hajduk

27.

00:33:34 – Rico Figliolini

Wow.

00:33:35 – Daniel Hajduk

A good chunk of those employees are family members of each other, too.

00:33:38 – Rico Figliolini

Really?

00:33:39 – Andrew Hajduk

Yeah. We have another husband and wife working here. We have a father and a stepson. So, yes.

00:33:41 – Rico Figliolini

That’s cool. Everyone’s committed. There’s a reason to be committed also to it. Life balance because of that? Is there a good life balance that you guys try to keep? Work-life balance is what I mean.

00:33:58 – Andrew Hajduk

Yes, there is. So I had the great joy of working with my dad. He came to work here about four years after I started the company, which was a really tough dynamic with the father coming to work for the son’s company. And that created some interesting family dynamics. But in the end, I knew that I wanted my family to be part of my business. When the kids got older and Cindy had been a stay-at-home mom while the kids were all growing up. My youngest went into eighth grade. She came to work here. And then my daughter graduated college, went to work for another agency, and then after a year wanted to come to work here. Kind of Daniel. So it’s been, and again, I’m going to be the, I will never tell you that it’s been 100% easy. The dynamic between all of us sometimes gets tough and things like that. At least from my perspective, it’s been a great joy for me, and it’s also helped address part of what happens to this when I’m done. I’m at the age where I start talking to people and everybody’s starting to think what their exit strategy is and things like that, and they don’t know. I feel truly blessed to know that my kids will be here to take this to the next level and stuff like that. But, you know, we have to work at it.

00:35:32 – Rico Figliolini

It’s cool that you have that, that you have a succession plan and stuff. Because lots of families don’t. And they end up closing shop for one reason or another. So it’s kind of cool. The legacy lives on, right? So we’ve been talking to Andrew and Daniel, Vox Pop Uli. Great business here in Peachtree Corners. And, to be transparent, a sponsor of ours as well. So we appreciate you guys sponsoring our journalism, the podcasts, and the magazines that we do. I appreciate that. And the podcast, actually, that we do as well. So thank you.

00:36:05 – Daniel Hajduk

Thank you for having us.

00:36:07 – Andrew Hajduk

 Yeah, thank you for having us. We love doing stuff like this. And we are really committed to this community. And selfishly, I want to become the place for everybody to come put their logo on something in Peachtree Corners. And if I can help your business, we all win, I believe.

00:36:28 – Daniel Hajduk

Just send us an email. Come by, whatever it is. We can help you out.

00:36:30 – Rico Figliolini

In the show notes, we’ll have the website address, social media and stuff. So pick up on it, ask them questions. They’re always open. So just for any new ideas. Thank you guys.

00:36:40 – Andrew Hajduk

Thank you.

00:36:41 – Rico Figliolini

Thank you all. And leave a comment if you have questions and check the show notes for all the other information you need.

In this episode of Peachtree Corners Life, host Rico Figliolini covers a range of topics for the new year with City Manager Brian Johnson. They address misinformation circulating on the Nextdoor app, discuss updates and future plans for Simpsonwood Park and provide details on upcoming city infrastructure improvements, including gateway signage and parks.

Additionally, the episode announces new features in Peachtree Corners, such as a trail hub, an electric vehicle mobility hub, concert additions and potential park development.

Timestamp

00:00 Introduction and New Year Greetings
00:35 Sponsor Acknowledgements
01:48 Addressing Inaccuracies about The Forum Parking
12:57 Simpsonwood Park Master Plan Update
27:51 City Gateway Signage and Trail Hub Plans
36:11 Upcoming Events and Community Activities

A discussion on the new small area plan, seven sub-areas for guiding growth, and the city’s proactive vision for balancing residential and commercial development.

In this episode of Peachtree Corners Life, host Rico Figliolini discusses the recently concluded moratorium on residential mixed-use development in Peachtree Corners’ Central Business District with Shaun Adams, the city’s Community Development Director. They explore the creation of a small area plan, which subdivides the district into seven distinct zones, enabling tailored development strategies for each. Shaun highlights the goals of this plan: better aligning future projects with the city’s vision, enhancing placemaking, and ensuring balanced growth. They also discuss updates to the city’s 2045 Comprehensive Plan, public engagement efforts, and upcoming steps, including the December 17th City Council vote. Listen to learn how Peachtree Corners is shaping its future while preserving its unique community character.

Resources:
Peachtree Corners Website
Community Development
Upcoming City Council Meeting Tuesday, December 17

Timestamp:
00:00:00 – Residential Mixed-Use Moratorium and Central Business District Revamp
00:04:40 – Comprehensive Plan Guiding City’s 10-20 Year Vision
00:06:50 – Distinguishing Institutional and Commercial Areas in the Central Business District
00:10:17 – Differentiating Commercial and Residential Zones in City Planning
00:15:56 – Planned Roundabout and Redevelopment Opportunities
00:17:40 – Balancing Town Center Development and Traffic Concerns
00:20:30 – Flexible Zoning for Diverse Housing Options
00:25:06 – Suburban Condo Financing Challenges
00:27:22 – Suburban Density and Apartment Conversions
00:28:49 – Targeted Infill Development to Support Existing Office
00:35:42 – Envisioning Flex Office Redevelopment in Chamblee
00:38:37 – Envisioning a Balanced Suburban Density
00:40:50 – Zoning Changes Headed to City Council

Podcast Transcript

Hi, everyone. This is Rico Figliolini, host of Peachtree Corners Life. We have a great guest today. We’re going to be discussing a lot of things here regarding residential, mixed use, the moratorium that recently ended on that development. Shaun Adams is with me today. Hey, Shaun. Thanks for being with me.

00:00:48 – Shaun Adams

Hey, how are you?

00:00:49 – Rico Figliolini

Good, good. So we’re going to talk, let’s set the stage a little bit about why, if you could give me a two-minute brief about why the moratorium was put in place and then what you were doing during that moratorium to start developing the ideas that we’re going to be visually showing our guests?

00:01:11 – Shaun Adams

Sure thing. So back in May, we put the moratorium in place on May 3rd. And one of the reasons that led to that is we were starting to see from the marketplace, a lot of properties in our central business district come online for sale. Office was not in great shape. They’re looking to redevelop sites in a way that didn’t necessarily align with what we felt our long-term vision of the central business district was. And when you look at the central business district, it’s a big piece of all of our office parks, including Tech Park and some of our retail nodes. And having one policy, if you will, that covered that whole area, you know, seemed to be a little broader than what we were ultimately looking for. And so we pressed pause, moratorium, and started working on a small area plan, which has now gotten to the point where we heard in planning commission a couple weeks ago, November 12th. And it’s set to go before council on December 17th. And through that process, we’ve held a couple of focus groups with brokers and owners, office owners in the central business district. We had a public engagement meeting. I’ve had some one-on-one conversations with members of the public who have reached out to me as well and provided feedback. And so we’ve taken all of that. And we actually, as a byproduct of that, we had a couple of themes that came out of those engagement sessions that spoke to more placemaking opportunities or amenitizing the Tech Park Central Business District area, taking it from an eight-hour day to a sixteen-hour day type of thought process, more gathering space where we could, a better mix of housing stock within the area. And so we also turned around and did an asset inventory, as I call it, where we put eyes on every commercial building in the Central Business District. We did a market analysis as well to determine how they were from a condition standpoint, what their occupancy rates were, what’s on the market, what’s not, what properties have kind of more underutilized space or parking than others. And as a byproduct of that, we’ve kind of set out these seven sub areas, which is probably the biggest change in the small area plan within the sub-district that allows us to get a little more granular and look at each of these areas and say, okay, what may make sense from a redevelopment standpoint or development standpoint in one area may not make sense in another. So how can we take all this information that the public and the experts have given us and, you know, mix it around and come out with all of that. So I have seven sub areas within the central business district that will be presenting to council.

00:03:50 – Rico Figliolini

And the moratorium was placed on the central business district area. So no one could apply for rezoning within that six month period that ended November 3rd, right? So during that time, you guys did what you needed to do as far as research and the inventory assets and developing these ideas. Because like you said before, from someone walking in that doesn’t know anything about this, the central business district area was governed by or ruled by one broad regulation, if you will. And now by subdividing these into seven districts, each of them will be uniquely managed, if you will, right? About what can go there or how it can be developed. So now that it ended November 3rd and city council is going to be seeing this December 17th as the last public hearing, if you will, before it’s voted on. When would it take effect?

00:04:46 – Shaun Adams

So and remember, this small area plan is essentially going to be an addendum to the 2045 comp plan. So it’ll be baked up under that. And, you know, once they vote on it in December, it’s being voted on to be adopted as a part of our comp plan. So it’ll essentially take effect right away. It is a policy document. It’s not a law document. And so it’s one of the things that we try to help people know is that the comprehensive plan is meant to guide our 10 to 20 year vision of how we see the city progressing. And, you know, some of that is, you know, proactive in nature and some of it is obviously defensive in nature. But this will plug right into that and allow us as staff when projects come through right away, we’ll be able to point to this. If it’s a project that comes in a central business district, we will immediately be able to point to this once council votes on it and says, hey, you know, this is kind of how we view this area in this property.

00:05:48 – Rico Figliolini

Right. And the comp plan gets reviewed every, was it every five years, I guess?

00:05:53 – Shaun Adams

It’s every five years from that day. The reality of the process for us is it feels like every three to four we get started on it.

00:05:59 – Rico Figliolini

Right, right. That’s true. Because by the time you finish public hearings and all that, I mean, it takes a while. So like you said, I mean, this is a guide, right? So what may be on there at least allows the city and developers to know exactly what’s expected, what’s going on. But it does give you that leeway to be able to adjust as you go. City council votes on it, planning commission votes on it. So it’s a process, right? Public hearings are done. So it’s not like all of a sudden something shows up that might be different from what would be on there all of a sudden, because it has to still go through the process of public hearings and all that. We were talking before we started this. I mean, it was interesting to me that a certain, maybe you want to pull up the map and we can start with that. Because one of the sections that is in the Central Business District, I didn’t even realize, was the G section that we talked about, the intersection of Peachtree Corner Circle and West Jones Bridge Road and Crooked Creek, where the elementary school is as well. I didn’t even realize that was in the Central Business District area. But you all have been proactive when you went through this process to make sure about a few things. So let’s start there a little bit. So what we’re seeing on here is the seven subdivided areas to our central business district. And the G, which is the green area, so the top one is the intersection of where the YMCA is, Peachtree Corners Baptist Church, and Cornerstone Christian Academy. And the one on the left side on this top map is the Crooked Creek and Peachtree Elementary School area. Correct? Yeah. So explain to us why that was pulled out separate.

00:07:56 – Shaun Adams

So, you know, as you kind of look at that area, you see they kind of stick out anyway from the core central business district. I think the reason why they are probably originally included in is because they are mostly institutional uses, which tend to lean on the commercial side versus everything around it being residential. But when, when you have a broad policy guide or policy statements like we have in the central business district before this, where, you know, the central business district in most places is where your highest intensity of development shall occur both mix of uses you know things like you see at town center and the forum you know that’s also common central business district. And so when you just say that broadly across the whole character area well that means everywhere that you see on this map right now, which includes those two sections. But we identified and understood that what may be appropriate along 141 and sub-area A probably isn’t appropriate in G. And so we wanted to try to carve that out for a couple reasons. And one is for the community to understand that we recognize there’s a difference in what might be able to go there, but also for developers to know that while it’s in the central business district, the athletic fields and parking lot of PCVC probably isn’t the place for an intense development. And so what this is called the suburban transition sub area is what G is. And the way we articulate it is that it’s the idea is that it will maintain its existing institutional character with the schools and the churches and the YMCA there. To the extent that if it were to be redeveloped in the future, it needs to take on the low intensity residential character of all the residential around it. And so if anything, it should act more like the Amberfield and Peachtree Station and everything that’s right by it and less like Central Business District. And so it kind of gives us that buffer and then now gives staff the ability if somebody were to come in and try to buy one of those pieces, we would be looking at this and saying, your development is inconsistent with our small area plan and surrounding uses. And that would give us some of the ammunition we need to be able to make a recommendation of denial in that case.

00:10:14 – Rico Figliolini

Which wasn’t in the original plan. I mean, anyone could have probably come in and bought that parking lot, if you will, across from PCBA and decided, or the YMCA, if that was ever to be sold or whatever, that someone could come in and say, well, you know, it’s a transition point. We could put townhouses there, which, you know, in a reasonable way, you might say that that could be like type of thing, type of development. But this eliminates sort of that.

00:10:58 – Shaun Adams

And townhomes are lower to medium intensity but the bigger thing is you can take that YMCA property and it’s big enough that could try and come in with a mix of uses, and even more intense. And while we can certainly from a staff standpoint leverage the fact that all the surrounding uses are lower intensity and try to use that to drive a staff report of denial, it will be harder for us to say it’s inconsistent with the comp plan when the comp plan is calling for the higher intensity use in that character area. But now this sub-area allows us to be able to point to both and say, no, that type of intense use in that area would not be appropriate.

00:11:23 – Rico Figliolini

And was this, I don’t remember now, but obviously the city’s thirteen years old. And we adopted Gwinnett County’s plans, right? I mean, when we became a city, essentially. And now that’s slowly been amended and changed over time. But would that have been allowed? I wonder if that would have been allowed during that time before we became a city.

00:11:50 – Shaun Adams

I’m not, well, I mean Gwinnett County would have had larger character areas since it was county-wide they would have certainly looked at this area along 141 and had more of a commercial node for it would be my guess. So we would have done our own comp plan before this to kind of have character specific to the city but a lot of times what happens as you see here is this is the core of our commercial and retail district and so that and then everything above it is residential and but now as we start to grow and develop you know and you start to see some of these properties in the market kind of change from what it was in the 80s and 90s, then, you know, now that becomes more at risk today than 20 years ago and mixed use wasn’t really a thing.

00:12:36 – Rico Figliolini

So city’s being proactive by doing this, obviously, and subdividing this makes sense to me too as well, as we were discussing before we started. Tell everyone what the darkened areas are. They should know from map but like the Forum, Town Center, I guess Dick’s Sporting Goods is on the south end, along with where the Chick-fil-A is, those areas. And they’re darkened because why?

00:13:04 – Shaun Adams

So they’re darkened for a couple of reasons. One, that’s really our retail entertainment sections right there, which, you know, from my perspective, really isn’t the same as the rest of the central business district, which is office focused. But also, you know, as we kind of talked before, the comp plan gets updated about every, you know, four to five years. These two areas here, our town center and the forum, they’re pretty much, from a redevelopment standpoint, they are what they are. They’re either in process or already built out. There’s not a lot of potential for change. Really, I’d say the only property grayed out would be the Ingles. But whether that’s something that would ever change in five years or not we don’t know I mean it’s a stable shopping center that’s leased up right now and so you know there hasn’t been anything of a recent note to indicate that it would be different but it is probably the only property in that area that doesn’t have that post 2000 design to it and the same thing at the bottom with Target, Dick’s Sporting Goods, LA Fitness Plaza, that’s a retail node that’s not likely to change in the next five years. And so what I would posit to you is that the next comp plan update, if anything, I could see those becoming a different character area potentially in the central business district. But in order to kind of fully flesh that out now, it would have taken another full-blown update. And so we wanted to focus on the areas that were ripe for potential redevelopment within the next four to five years, like what’s likely to change. And so that’s why you’ll notice the E section as well, where even though a lot of times that area around Peachtree Corner Circle with the Lidl DaVinci Court hexagon is often part of that downtown focus, that is an area that one has attempted redevelopment recently and probably has the potential for redevelopment in the next five years at some point in time. And so we included that and made it its own sub-area as a town center gateway because we wanted feedback from the community on that since we felt like it would likely be sought for some sort of transition over the next five years.

00:15:20 – Rico Figliolini

In that area, I know that, for example, the E part, the west side of 141 there, that’s where the day building is. I know that they applied for rezoning there. They’d like to put mixed use, a residential, I think. And then you have the E. Let’s start there. Let’s talk about that.

00:15:40 – Shaun Adams

Actually, so yeah, the west side here, my cursor is the curve that you see is the Cowart Parcel that’s not developed yet, but that’s where he has the entitlements for the 56 condos. The day building is actually over here in our commercial 4. So since it’s a little further down Peachtree Corner Circle, it kind of fell out of the gateway. Based off of our review.

00:16:05 – Rico Figliolini

So is the 50-unit condo still, that’s the one that I think butts up to the intuitive properties maybe or neither?

00:16:16 – Shaun Adams

It does. So it’s kind of the one that’s tucked in behind the QT and the creme de la creme. And then part of the intuitive campus is on the other side of it.

00:16:25 – Rico Figliolini

Okay. By the way, is that, I think the roundabout that was being planned has that been approved and going into that part with the creme de la creme and the exit from the forum is, is that, has that been approved?

00:16:40 – Shaun Adams

I believe that kind of falls more on my public work side. I believe it’s in design, but I’m going to leave that for Brian and Greg to speak more clearly to it. I believe it is still in play, but it would be aligned with the creme access where that has been discussed to be slated.

00:17:01 – Rico Figliolini

Okay. Do you foresee, I know in the E part on the south, on the east side or south side, there’s a couple of other buildings there that are being looked at, right? Is Regis one of those buildings?

00:17:14 – Shaun Adams

Regis Hexagon is one where I think half of it’s vacant right now. The Hexagon has moved out. Regis still has their side. So, you know, that’s a building, again, 50% or less occupancy, a lot of parking. So, you know, in my mind, that’s one where you could see somebody coming in and kicking tires at any point. And so it was important to make sure that was included as a part of this conversation.

00:17:44 – Rico Figliolini

Sure. Why don’t we, why don’t you start, I guess from there, I mean, that’s the town center gateway it’s called, right? And let’s work our way around to tell us a little bit about why each of these have been adjusted the way they are.

00:17:58 – Shaun Adams

Certainly. So, I mean, I guess the town center gateway, you know, what we point out here is that it is kind of a wrapping around as a part of that downtown and, you know, could provide opportunity to connect directly into the town center area to amenitize. And, you know, not only those office buildings there, but there is enough excess parking there to provide some additional body heat and residential units to further support town center and the forum. And so that’s kind of been looked at as an area, you know, for meeting the high bill for equity product. There was discussion at planning commission, you know, that I’d say the one, one concern that some of the community has expressed is with regards to our recommendation of medium to high density in the E area, largely over traffic concerns in terms of, you know, if you put a few more hundred units in that area, what will that do from a traffic standpoint? We are, you know, continuing to work to look at that and provide, you know, analysis for it in advance of council. But, you know, what I have kind of spoken to is the reason again this being a guide right, is the importance of having somewhat of a range and saying medium to high intensity is you know I’ll use da vinci as an example just because they kind of made this reference in their public hearing but they talked about the fact that they currently of the twelve plus acres they have about nine acres of it is asphalt. Four acres of I believe it, is what they said in a public is hearing, is excess. So they can maintain their four to one parking ratio that they need for their tenants and get rid of four acres. And so if they were to come back in with a proposal with residential units so that, you know, were what city and the community wanted. People generally were like, that’s a good proposal. And we’ll just, you know, for the sake of easy math, you know, it’s four acres that they came in with, you know, eighty units of townhomes and, but they did it as a whole twelve acre property. That’s less than eight units an acre, right? That’s like low end of medium, if anything, you know, in terms of density. So everybody be like, that’s great. That’s awesome. Great job. You know, it looks good. Everybody’s happy. Well, if they sold off the four acres of parking and a different, whoever bought the four acres or was contracted to buy the four acres comes in to zone eighty townhomes. Now that density is being accounted for off of four acres, not twelve. And so what was a less than seven acre, seven unit per acre project now looks like a twenty unit per acre project. And now it sounds like high density. And so the reason for having the range is saying, look, all of these properties within that gateway, in order to put one residential unit on it, they’d have to come to us for a rezoning. So we get to look at it on a case-by-case basis and say, you know what? If it’s eighty townhomes there on four acres, whether it’s all twelve acres is zoned as a mud or four acres of it is zoned, you know, residential infill or some other zoning opportunity there. The idea is that it’s eighty units for the core of that site that’s meant to serve the property. So we might look at that differently okay more supportive than 350 units on say the hexagon building or the synergy building or something right? You know so that’s still high but it’s a lot more units and so by baking in a range it allows us to contemplate those scenarios where you might have parcel carve-outs and that person comes in because maybe the office owner doesn’t want to wrap everything into a mixed use for whatever reason, but he’s okay giving a piece of the parking to add something to it. And so from a planning standpoint, we have to look at what’s the total number of units going on the ground in an area. And that’s really what’s going to come down from a traffic standpoint anyway from support. But if we just said medium and that same project came in, I mean, technically, council could look at it case by case and still say, I understand based off of the four acres, it looks like higher intensity. But, you know, totality of the circumstances, if you will, it really is more like medium and therefore we would support it they still have that ability to do it but I think it’s from a legal standpoint from a policy standpoint to have the range in there it’s easier for us to kind of defend and support on a case-by-case basis. And so that’s something that we’re looking at and trying to help articulate why the importance of the range is there.

00:22:51 – Rico Figliolini

So when equity is talked about, I mean, the only equity that I hear all the time is either homes or townhomes. I don’t hear anything about condos. So it transitions right to apartments. Like if someone came in and decided they wanted to apply for, I don’t know 180, 200 units, it’s always looked at as multifamily apartments versus an equity property like condos would be. Is that even in the plans? Does that allow for that? Or is that one of those expanded uses that could be but it’s not explicit in there?

00:23:32 – Shaun Adams

So one of the changes we made as well is instead of trying to speak to known housing product types, we spoke to intensity of the residential use. So low to medium, medium to high density. And the reason why is, we are, I think we are at a point where the residential housing community is trying to shift to find more creative housing product types to help address, you know, the fact that we have less land to develop on, the need for more attainable price points for housing. People, not everybody wants five, four in a door and there’s not opportunity to build it. And in most places anymore. And so where do our empty nesters want to go if they want to own, but downsize. And so, you know, we’re starting to see stack townhome options where it looks like a townhome, but it’s two units stacked on top of each other. They each have a garage. They still have that indoor parking, but they have flat level living once they get there. We’re seeing courtyard style homes are coming out, smaller cottages, kind of going back to that 900 to 1500 square foot single family detached on small lots. And so, you know, as what I don’t know 10 years from now, if I did, you know, I’d probably be in the construction side is what are those types of uses? You know, what does that mix a housing product type? And so what we want to be able to do is say, look, it really matters the intensity of the use. And then we’ll know when we see it, what comes in, if it’s the type of housing product type that makes sense in the area and kind of assimilates into the surrounding environment. So rather than boxing us in and saying no single family detached or no townhome, let’s do it that way. But to your point on the condo front, most people forget that a mid-rise stacked flat building can be equity or rental, right? Condos and ownership type, not a structure. But we are, I think suburban condos, if you will. Like a mid-rise condominium project doesn’t finance or pay for it in suburbia right now. And that’s why you don’t see it like you see inside the perimeter. But what does are we’re starting to see kind of like what you know waterside they have that condo component where there’s three levels with the parking deck you know that type of product works and the reason why is because if you know for condos you have to pre-sell 50 percent before you can get the financing you need to go vertical on the building. So if you take a 50 unit mid-rise, you got to sell 25 units before you start going unless you’re self-funding. And the problem with that is you’re asking people to put money down where they won’t be able to benefit from it for potentially two to three years. But if you have an eight unit kind of stacked townhome building or something like that, one, that building is a lot cheaper to build than a mid-rise. But two, you have to pre-sell four units and then you get the aggregate of the pre-sales moving forward. So once you get four units sold, you build one, you put a couple models in there. And as you sell that out, you can now build the next one. And so that tends to work better in suburbia. And we’re starting to see some of those products come in and kick around.

00:26:50 – Rico Figliolini

Right. And I can appreciate that and understand that. And they look nicer that way, too. There’s better quality of living, maybe. But I’ve also seen, and maybe this is more urban, I guess, where apartments come in, let’s say, multi-unit apartments, but they’re pre-wired, they’re set. They could be condo products. And eventually some of them do turn into that, right? Seven years later, they become condo equity property. That’s actually an easy way of doing it, right? Build the apartment, finance it that way, and then the conversion can happen later. So that’s been done before. But you’re right. Maybe the suburban area we live in right now doesn’t need to be quite that dense with those types of developments.

00:27:41 – Shaun Adams

Well, I will say on that end though, the apartment projects that are coming in, even the ones, I know a couple of them have been denied, but the proposals and Tucson Court as well, Broadstone, they are sub-metered, they are pre-wired in a way to where they could be converted. And I know that’s the difficulty. The irony is like, well, then why can’t it finance as a rental product but not an ownership product? And we can go into the legal weeds on that one. But they are being built now to have that conversion. If we ever find that people are going back towards wanting to buy like that, I could see that happening.

00:28:18 – Rico Figliolini

Yeah. And it’s mainly a financial issue, right? It’s mainly the banks and what they’re willing to finance. And I’m glad that actually the city, I think it was a few years ago, started doing that, conditioning developments to be sub-wide and all that. Because that made sense. I mean, to be able to look to the future and all that. Plus, energy-wise and everything else, it just makes sense to have it done that way. Alright, let’s go into the Ds and the C area. Let’s go into the C area and why is that? And describe what business is actually there at that point.

00:28:56 – Shaun Adams

Certainly. So the C is what we’re calling targeted infill. These are typically slightly smaller lots in general, but you still have businesses and buildings where there’s some underutilized space, maybe over development, or in some cases you might have a smaller office building on a smaller site that isn’t doing so great, but you have better office around it. And so there’s the potential for maybe one property might change so that it betters the ones around it. And so with the targeted infill, you know, what we’re really looking at here is some of that medium. In some cases, you might say higher density, but again, because it’s a smaller lot. So we’re not talking a lot of units, but it might be, you know, more in that ten to fifteen unit range or, you know, fifteen to twenty unit per acre range, but still maybe only 80 to 100, 150 units, something like that. But the idea behind it is it needs to be something that’s meant to kind of help stand up and support existing and surrounding office. So we’re still focusing on that goal. Some of the areas you see here, down here at the bottom, is 20 and 22 Tech Park South. It’s already zoned as a mixed use. And then that spur right across from it is the Isaacson one that just came through, which is the office to condo conversion for 13 units. So again, this right here is an example of where this office was sacrificed, but around it these office buildings here are much better performing, a better condition, doing well. And so by adding some residential here, right on PIB, kind of in the gateway in, it’s gonna now help support some of what is around this. And so that’s kind of the idea. This section back here is research court. You’ve got Peachtree Farms down here, which already kind of has that little bit more of a residential type of character to it. But a couple of these buildings here are either fully vacant or, you know, in need of quiet repair. So there’s the opportunity to do some stuff around here that can maybe stand up some of the office within here, but also help further support, what we have at D. And then this is Spalding 141. So Goodwill Plaza here, Hapag-Lloyd, 5550 Triangle, and that’s this whole section here. And then on the other side, you have the Summit Building, Bank of America, and it’s kind of the space in front of it and the hotel. So that’s kind of a corridor area of some smaller lots where you could probably see some redevelopment occur at some point in time, which that kind of gives us the idea. D is our, we’re calling it commercial core. D is really the area where we don’t expect to see a lot of change away from office. A lot of the office and flex space or what have you in that area is doing well or conditioned well. So we don’t see substantive change. Obviously, most of this area up here is intuitive. The flex office space here, 5250 and 5390 is leasing up well. It’s performing. And so, you know, here what we say is any redevelopment here is going to be accessory in nature to the existing and surrounding office. So much lower intensity if it’s residential, odds are because it’s off the major corridors, it’s probably not going to support retail anyway. And so this is where you can amenitize it, you know, the trail heads can come through in certain places, that type of thing. And so that’s that to me is kind of like our stable base of office. And so not a lot of change.

00:32:32 – Rico Figliolini

Right.

00:32:33 – Shaun Adams

A, as you see here, we’re calling it the district hub, but it’s pretty center or central to the central business district, if you will. It’s right along 141. For context, this is engineering drive comes through right here so this kind of southeastern side of 141 is rod stone the liquor store the racetrack so that’s already is what it is. That’s built out and developed. The other side you have DR Horton back here and then this is the CarMax Plaza. There’s a little kind of right angle building tucked away that you don’t really see from the road, but overlooks the lake. So CarMax, parking right on 141, full signalized intersection, really underutilized space. And part of what we heard when people talked about amenitizing Tech Park beyond gathering spaces and trails was creating opportunities for entertainment, placemaking uses that wouldn’t pluck from town center and the Forum. Don’t want to start to compete fully with that. If there is a place to do it, it should be on a major thoroughfare. And so this is probably where your highest intensity of redevelopment would occur as it relates to additional commercial uses and residential because of its proximity and full access. And so it’s kind of the idea is that hopefully this kind of becomes your entertainment placemaking hub for the central business district.

00:34:05 – Rico Figliolini

I think part of that, wasn’t there at one point about adjusting some of the regulations for allowing recreational uses inside certain buildings that don’t exist actually at this point as far as an allowed use. Is that amended, I think, already?

00:34:16 – Shaun Adams

Yes, back in March. I think March, April timeframe, we did the social recreation facility and social hobbyist tax amendments that kind of address some of those smaller scale uses that didn’t, we didn’t really have a clean and tidy place for. But yeah, I mean, this could be the kind of thing where, you know, your fairway and socials or brewery, things like that. We’d love to see that type of anchor use come in here, something that could hopefully stabilize and make the CarMax building more, more valuable. Because it’s a pretty good shape building. If you put some stuff around it, you could foresee a situation. You’ve got 295 multifamily, 26 towns on this side, 75 towns coming on DR Horton. So you’re kind of in that 380, just shy of 400 range if out of all this you know in this area if you had a little more residential along with some entertainment uses you really have a core that can support that additional retail or entertainment use coming in so it brings a product to the city we don’t have hopefully that all of our residents up here in the shaded out area can easily pop down into and out but most anybody else coming to it is going to leverage you know the main thoroughfare 141 in the city to do it and so you know that’s we felt like if there was a place to have it that’s it okay and then I’ll hit F real quick because it should be real quick. This is really our saturn court down here. This is off of PIB. We call it flex office, but this is where most of our true kind of industrial one-story bay door flex office buildings are. Anything here is going to be more to enhance that. It shouldn’t see much in the way of true redevelopment there. It’s a pretty stable spot. And so we kind of drew those out on their own. And then the last one is B, we’re calling it district infill. Perspective wise, I mean, this is Jaybird Alley right here. So down here, you have the Comcast building down here below. This is Mary Our Queen up here. These two buildings right here are one property my understanding is this building is fully vacant most people are in this back building as you can see you look around you have a ton of underutilized parking and space an office park. And even the public engagement sector, our public engagement meeting this is where most people said hey the intensity of residential and everything if anywhere, that’s where it should be. It’s further away from town center where a lot of people feel like we already have a lot of growth going on. It’s adjacent to Holcomb Bridge Road corridor. We’re trying to do a lot to redevelop that corridor. And so this is where it makes the most sense. And so here is where we’re kind of proposing that medium to high opportunity as well for residential mix of uses. Still with a preference for built for equity products, I think there’s some opportunity because unlike C, these properties are larger. So you can take one property and do more. Where C, you might have some three to four acre sites. Here, you’ve got a lot of 12, 15 acre sites. So there could be some opportunity to do more with a mix of product types. You could potentially stabilize the office building with it, or you may have to take one to support others.

00:37:40 – Rico Figliolini

So let’s, I mean, medium to high density. So when, for example, I drove through, I think it was, what was it, Beaufort Highway? No, Peachtree Industrial Boulevard going south into the city. It was actually Chamblee I was driving through. And I hadn’t been through that part in quite a while, apparently, because all of a sudden I noticed all these buildings. Beautiful architecture, actually. Well-designed apartment buildings. Prettier looking, I’ve got to say, than Broadstone. But that’s just my take on it. Better architectural planning on that. Do we foresee that type of local development, too, maybe in that B area? Because, I mean, does that. Just so that people can sort of envision what is going to go where maybe as far as that goes.

00:38:31 – Shaun Adams

I consider that to be more of an urban higher density than a suburban higher density you know my vision for down here is there certainly may be a couple of sites where, you know, multifamily might be needed or might make some sense to be able to support the retail that’s right here. But really, when I look at this, doing some of that residential infill, you know, like a couple of zoning districts are talking about, I could see an opportunity for a mix of product types, whether it’s attached and detached townhomes with some stacked townhomes or smaller cottage homes, you know, where we can find an opportunity to do that, to bring in some more of that equity product, but it can be smaller footprints. And so it may be 15 to 20 units an acre. And, you know, in my mind, anything less than 20, you’re still kind of in that medium range. You get over 20 is when there’s a two in front of it and it starts to feel like, okay, for suburban areas, that’s probably, that’s the low end of high. You know, when you get like the Chamblee area, they’re probably 40, 50, 60 units an acre is what you’re probably seeing there. I don’t foresee that, you know, even our current regional or I say regional, but our current mixed use ordinance that we have, even with all the bonus density, you can get caps at 45. And 32 is the base. And so I don’t foresee it being Chamblee-esque, if you will. I want it to be a more efficient use of the space supporting the office. But I think my mind, when you say medium to high, I’m thinking this area is probably likely to be more in that 15 to 25 type of range and hopefully supporting as many of those office buildings as we can.

00:40:16 – Rico Figliolini

Okay. Sounds good. So this is going to be presented to the city council again on December 17th. Public comments, public hearing. People can come to that meeting and make their public comments about that plan. It’s been out there already. There’s been public focus groups, a public meeting. So it’s been out there. Just for those people that might look at this, listen to this and say, I didn’t know about it, but it’s been out there. It’s been advertised. God, it’s been ad nauseum with being out there. So finally, it’s coming to city council, and it’ll be voted on at that meeting, because it’s gone past the first reading on it. Do you foresee any additional, is there any additional things that you should share, that you want to share right now that we haven’t covered, Shaun?

00:41:07 – Shaun Adams

As far as the plan, no. I mean, I think it’s pretty well out there. I mean, this is, to me, the biggest change is what the sub-areas are allowing us to do. I mean, other than stating that we’ve got a couple of zoning districts in the works as a byproduct of this so that we can fully implement the plan. But outside of that, we do have two applications in for December Planning Commission, but they’re not really specific to these changes. So we haven’t had that rush, even thought the moratorium ended on November 3rd, of people coming in. So it’ll be interesting as people maybe flip their heads out of the sand after the holidays in January and start to kick tires again to kind of see the reaction of the development community. The first couple of times they come in on some of these properties and talk with us about it.

00:42:00 – Rico Figliolini

Sounds good. Great. So again, for those, it’s December 17th, the city council meeting. If you have any questions, what I’m going to do is in the show notes for this, I’ll have a link to the meeting. I’ll have a link. I think we could get a link to this plan as well.

00:42:18 – Shaun Adams

It’ll be in the packet.

00:42:22 – Rico Figliolini

Okay. Is there a separate PDF available on this that we can link to?

00:42:27 – Shaun Adams

I can get one set up for the full plan that’ll be shown. This was a specific presentation that doesn’t have the full plan in it that I’m sharing right now. But I can get the full plan maybe with a draft watermark on it or something and then have that so it can be shared.

00:42:45 – Rico Figliolini

Alright, that’d be great if you could do that. If anyone has comments certainly leave it in the comments email, myself or actually Shaun Adams at the city if you have any questions and sorry my cats are going crazy so just you know put your comments and we’ll see about getting answers to you before the meeting or certainly bring them to that meeting and you’ll know a little bit more about what’s going on. So Shaun, thank you. Appreciate you being with me. Hang in there for a minute while we say goodbye. In fact, if you want to take the map off, you’re fine to do that. Everyone else, thank you again. This is Peachtree Corners Life. My name is Rico Figliolini, host of this, and publisher of Peachtree Corners Magazine and Southwest Gwinnett Magazine, and Shaun Adams here. Give me your title again, Shaun, because I should remember that.

00:43:39 – Shaun Adams

Community Development Director.

00:43:41 – Rico Figliolini

There you go. So tell us all what you think. Give us some feedback in the comments. We’ll look forward to the next episode of this podcast when we talk to Shaun again, likely Brian Johnson, the City Manager, and we’ll get more information about what’s going on. There’s going to be a lot going on in 2025, that’s for sure. So thanks again. Hang in there.