Business

Learn how to maximize company health benefits while minimizing cost [Podcast]

Published

4 years ago

October 31, 2021

Health Insurance, for small business owners as well as individuals, can be difficult to navigate. There are tons of options in the market and outside of it, so where do you start? Our guest on this episode of the Capitalist Sage, is Erica Dumpel, founder of CDA, Inc., an insurance solution provider that helps both individuals and small businesses. She’s got over 40 years of experience in the healthcare insurance industry and she’s here to share some tips and information on how to make better decisions and start asking the right questions of your insurance providers.

With you hosts Karl Barham and Rico Figliolini

Resources:
CDA Inc. Website: http://cdainc.net
Erica’s Email: Erica@CDAINC.net
Business Phone: (770) 449-7369

Timestamp:

[00:00:30] – Intro
[00:02:11] – About Erica and Her Business
[00:02:58] – Group Coverage and How It Changes
[00:09:48] – Differences in Coverage Across the Country
[00:11:29] – The Affordable Care Act
[00:14:18] – How Employers are Handling Insurance
[00:17:18] – HMO vs. PPO
[00:19:15] – Physicians Outside of Networks

“If you sit down with a coffee cup on a Saturday morning and a yellow pad, and you go back and say, okay, last year, what did we use? What did we do? Pull up whatever checkbooks, credit cards, EOBs, whatever you have. Go back a year earlier, if it was different. Look forward. And I’ve told everybody, please ask your doctor what is on the horizon… We are saving people all kinds of money with a little bit of homework.”
Erica Dumpel

Podcast Transcript

[00:00:30] Karl: Welcome to the Capitalist Sage Podcast. We’re here to bring you advice and tips from seasoned pros and experts to help you improve your business. I’m Karl Barham with Transworld Business Advisors, and my co-host is Rico Figliolini with Mighty Rockets, Digital Marketing, and the publisher of the Peachtree Corners Magazine. Hey Rico, how are you doing today?

[00:00:47] Rico: Good Karl. I hope you’re well.

[00:00:49] Karl: I’m doing very well. We’ve got a rainy day out there today. It’s fall, it’s finally here. And why don’t you introduce our sponsor for today?

[00:00:59] Rico: Sure. Peachtree Corners Magazine, which we just put out our latest issue, is the sponsor of this podcast. Along with Peachtree Corners Life and Prime Lunchtime with the City Manager. So you can check us out on LivinginPeachtreeCorners.com or check out the Capitalist Sage website at TheCapitalistSage.com as well.

[00:01:18] Karl: Excellent. Well, today we are going to talk about health insurance and various options, especially for small business owners and individuals that are trying to navigate all these options in the market or with other plans. Today’s guest is Erica Dumpel. She is the founder of CDA, Inc., an insurance solution provider that helps both individuals and small businesses. She’s got over 40 years of experience in the healthcare insurance industry. And she’s here today to share some tips and information so that people that have to make decisions over the next you know, 90 odd days are informed with various options and at least start to asking the right questions of your insurance providers and the folks that help you with that. Hi Erica, how are you doing today?

[00:02:08] Erica: I am doing great. Thank you so much for inviting me.

[00:02:11] Karl: Oh, it’s my pleasure, my pleasure. Why don’t we jump right in and you share a little bit about yourself and what you do, and tell us a little bit about your business?

[00:02:19] Erica: We are a small business in Norcross, Georgia. We are a party of six, with a couple of dogs as extras, our security crew. Since 1975, we have had an agency that focuses on small companies, individuals, and seniors. So we work primarily with companies of less than 50 employees. Where sometimes individual products are appropriate, sometimes the group products are appropriate. And then we layer in there, all of the issues related to Medicare, because we have an increasing senior population that is continuing to work. So that has become an extra layer of conversation.

[00:02:58] Karl: Oh wow. I know that everyone this past 18 plus months, everyone’s health has become a critical point of discussion in family. And there are people that may not have had health insurance before, or had less health insurance, that are probably looking at the future differently than they have in the past. And so why don’t we start off with just talking about when you see individuals and small businesses, just high level, what are some of the options they have if they want to get better health insurance and healthcare?

[00:03:30] Erica: Let’s start with the groups, okay? So whether you are two people or 49 people, you are in a specific category called small group. You can do the guaranteed issue, affordable care act plans, which means they are cookie cutter. They are predetermined. The rates are the same, whether you are healthy or sick, whatever industry you are in. It’s a great starting point. Especially if someone has some medical issues in their group. If on the other hand, that same group of people can answer medical questions positively. There is an improvement in rates by going into medically underwritten coverage. The next level beyond that is, if you can do that and you can qualify for one of the programs that gives you an opportunity to get back any claims dollars that you haven’t used, that becomes even more attractive. And then there’s some other layers beyond that. But what we are finding now, and we have found it, the pendulum swings back and forth. What happens is, a couple of years ago, group rates were significantly less expensive than individual rates. Well, the pendulum has swung. And in the state of Georgia, individual rates are swinging more and more cost-effectively away from group. So all of a sudden we are talking to our employers, whether they are 49 or whether they are two and saying, does it make sense to unbundle the group product and look at an individual coverage, HRA? An ICHRA, you may have heard of that, or a QSEHRA is another one that’s out there. Does that make sense? Number one. Number two, does that get you away from some of the compliance issues? You put in a medical group plan and you have responsibilities that someone may not tell you about, or you may not be aware of how important this is. The penalties can be $110 a day times the number of employees, times the number of days since the infraction. These are real numbers. So we look at it from that side, then with some of our clients where some of the incomes are lower, and we’re talking the nonprofits and some of the nursery schools. What if we look at completely unbundling it? What happens if we help these people look at marketplace policies? Where suddenly now we have subsidies, which means we are able to reduce premiums based on income. If the incomes are low enough, you get that plus you get an improvement to a lower deductible, a lower out of pocket. And the employer rather than funding, or having to fund a portion of it, simply steps away. And says, Erica and her crew or whoever the broker is, is going to come in is going to do the guidance. Is going to do the education, is going to help with the enrollment. We are getting out of the group business right now because it is more cost-effective, it is better coverage for our employees. So that in a nutshell is what’s going on right now. And it is a busy time.

[00:06:22] Karl: Let me ask you some questions to see if I understand this correctly. If I’m an employer that have, maybe relatively low earning employees in my plan, and I want to offer some form of health coverage for them. Can you describe the name of that? The last one that you mentioned. And am I understanding it right where they can opt in? I can offer the plan, but I’m not required to contribute into it?

[00:06:50] Erica: You are not offering the plan, you are stepping away. You’re saying I have historically paid X dollars. I paid 200, $300 a month for everybody’s coverage. We either cannot afford to do that anymore. With COVID that has been a very common comment. Or we find that it’s not as cost effective. We have in particular a daycare center, the employee premium is going from four 40 to $480 a month for a $6,700 deductible. Okay? These folks are making very low income. If we take the employer out of the picture and say, we are dismantling the group. Okay, you are not going to pay anything. You are simply going to do steerage. We take the employees to the marketplace and determine as an example, Rico, you’ve got this age, this zip code, these doctors, these drugs, these family members. These plans make the most sense for you. Karl, you’re in a different zip code. You’ve got different needs. Everybody picks what they want. And it may be, Rico, you need a high deductible health plan. You don’t use this stuff much. Karl, you may have young kids running around. You may need co-pays. I don’t know. But you can finally fit the right product to the person instead of, and I’ve said for years, if I do my job right on a group product, everybody’s unhappy because I have to find the average. So here we finally have the opportunity to get the right fit for the employee.

[00:08:14] Karl: What changed to make that happen?

[00:08:16] Erica: It was the marketplace subsidies many years ago. Then those became less attractive. And now with the COVID, especially in the Atlanta market, we have more people looking for individual health coverage. We have carriers who’ve been here now, six carriers who have been here for a couple of years with good numbers. Good results. Four more carriers are coming into town and these are not small carriers. Aetna is coming in under the CVS banner. United Healthcare is coming in. Friday Health Plans is coming in from Colorado, they’re a good player. And Bright Health Plans is coming in, they’re already in North Carolina. So there’s an expansion of opportunity. But the biggest thing, so we focus on premiums, obviously the cost. We focus on the benefits, because if I can get you a lower deductible for the same or less money than you were paying before, you win. But the biggest change this year has been, these plans started as skinny HMO’s. So the reimbursement rate through the providers was very low. So doctors said, we’re not playing this game. We can’t afford to do that. So each of the plans had one or two hospital networks. So all of a sudden, I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but a lot of doctor practices are selling out to hospital groups. The Laureate Group is now owned by someone else. So everybody’s being bought and the Piedmont Clinic is expanding and magically those are all now participating providers under the hospital system. So our network has blossomed. That’s been our concern, is if I can’t find you the right doctor, then everything else is meaningless.

[00:09:48] Rico: Doesn’t it get a little, I remember when the ACA came through. There were, I think only three, insurance companies in the state of Georgia at one point. Because they didn’t want to participate. They actually left. I forget if it was United Health Care, one of them decided, that’s it I’m not doing it anymore. So now you’re saying that, I mean, most people that are, have gone through the system, north of 50 years old, figured that group insurance would be cheaper. Because you’re taking advantage and leveraging people. But what you’re saying is that’s not the case anymore. That I can go out, buy my own individual insurance. Yes, customize it to me, but it would still be competitive in the marketplace. Even if I don’t have a group behind it.

[00:10:33] Erica: It depends where you are in the country. And I found this wonderful map that goes from dark blue to dark brown. And the dark blue is where the group products are more competitive. And the dark brown is where the individual is. So if you’re in Texas, it’s this shade of blue behind me, okay. Don’t go looking for individual contracts there. The Savannah area, Macon and south, is a dark tan. The Atlanta market is a gray going into a nice shade of tan telling us that right now, this is the place to be. You’ve got to be fleet of foot. You guys are paying health insurance premiums, this stuff is heinously expensive. You know, we spend more time pricing our groceries than we do our health insurance. And how much does this stuff cost us to use? That’s the other part. It’s great, I have a $6,700 deduction. That’s like having no insurance for most of America. That’s a problem.

[00:11:22] Rico: Yeah. And especially if you don’t have copay or you’re paying per doctor visit and stuff like that. Yeah. I could see that.

[00:11:29] Karl: So I’m going to take this moment to re-introduce Erica Dumpel with CDA Inc. Health Insurance. Helping people find health insurance solutions. I want to kind of start back and maybe you could help me with the history. When Obamacare, which the marketplace, these terms we’re using them interchangeably. When that became available early on, I know there were fewer options of insurance. People were unsure about it. And they also, to be able to participate, there were certain requirements that had to be met to qualify for a marketplace plan. Are you saying now that the marketplace, there’s more plans available in the marketplace and you can customize them to yourself, but they still meet those initial requirements?

[00:12:17] Erica: I’ve done this for 46 years. So we were back to the hospital surgical days, before there even were PPOs and networks. What happened when the Affordable Care Act came in was, a bunch of companies got very excited and said, oh, this is a great opportunity. And so they came into the market. The Humanas, the Aetnas, the United Healthcare. They all jumped in. The Affordable Care Act, qualified plans had to meet certain requirements. They had to have the federally mandated wellness and preventive guidelines. So there are all kinds of little things that were required. What happened was, you could qualify for a marketplace plan or you could qualify for an ACA plan, period. I mean, you were buying a cookie cutter plan from originally 6, 7, 8 companies. You would qualify for a subsidy based on income. So they look at the family size, they look at the income and they say that your premium cannot exceed X percentage of your income. If you are between 250 and 400% of the federal poverty level. There were different buy downs on and on. Fast forward to the COVID issue. The government realized we had a whole bunch of people running around with no insurance because they couldn’t afford it. So not only did there appear or does there appear to have been an increase in the subsidy amount that people are getting, but where everything seemed to stop at 400% of the federal poverty level, now it’s going beyond that. If you are above 400%, you are not going to have as big a help. But you’re still going to have some help, if the premiums exceed a certain percentage of your income. So it’s an effort by the government, in my opinion, to get as many people covered as possible. The more people we have who are not showing up at emergency rooms or at hospitals without a negotiated network, the less the rest of us are going to be paying for their costs that are being written off and passed onto the rest of us.

[00:14:18] Karl: Got it. So in the scenario that you described where employers don’t offer group plans, is it the idea that they can offer them some kind of cash bonus credit or something as they choose their own to help them offset their costs? What do you see employers doing? Or are they just stepping away from it completely?

[00:14:37] Erica: Many employers, I suspect are just going to step away completely. Our clients are not like that. Our clients are taking those dollars and saying, okay, rainy day. Because in two years, this all may shift the other way. So let’s kind of bank that for the moment. But let’s look at things that individuals cannot purchase cost effectively. Dental, vision, disability products. You cannot buy a cost-effective disability product. But on a group basis, it’s pennies. Life insurance, cancer, accident. All of those workplace products become an uninteresting thing. In some cases, some of our employers are saying we are not allowed to pay for the health insurance, but we can bump. This guy has been with me for 15 years, I’d like to give him $300 a month. This fellow is brand new, I’d like to give him a hundred dollars a month. I’m just going to raise the salary, and make it clear to them that it is because of this. At some point, we may need to take this money back, if we go back into the group business. Please don’t forget why you’re getting this money. Because that’s very easy to forget, unfortunately. A lot of companies right now are fighting to attract and retain their employees. So anything that improves a situation, maybe saves a little money for the employer for a rainy day. Maybe allows, I don’t know, a bigger Thanksgiving dinner or whatever. I don’t know. There are all kinds of things that can be done with those dollars.

[00:16:02] Rico: There’s a friend of mine. His company provides group insurance. But he’s also told his individual employees, if you don’t want to be on this group insurance, this agent that I use, this company to use, can provide options for other insurance that you can purchase separately. Now he’s not bumping salaries per se to cover that, but he’s giving options. Because he’s saying you may be able on your own to get it cheaper than what I’m able to give to you as a group. Because like you said, everyone’s a little different, right? It could be a 25 year old working for him versus a 40 year old with two kids.

[00:16:39] Erica: The thing to be careful of is, when the employer says, go work with this broker and go get a subsidy. Okay? So we have to be very careful. One of the kick outs is if you are eligible for coverage under a group plan through your employer or any other employer, to whom you are affiliated, spouse as an example, you cannot have a subsidy. And what’s happened is that people were not told that or are gaming the system. At some point, they’re going to get caught on that. And there will be certainly a return of that money. Certainly there’ll be some kind of penalty. Right now, not. But in the future, there’s going to be some kind of penalty for that.

[00:17:18] Karl: So I’ve got another question about the, in Georgia locally here, the options in the marketplace, ACA. Most of them in 2020, I remember seeing something. Over the last several years, they’ve mostly been HMO options. I don’t know if there was many PPOs and then there might’ve been a few HSA, high deductible HSA plans. In this coming, do you have any insight of is there any change in options for folks? And just generally your thoughts on the pros and cons of HMOs versus PPOs when people are trying to select what’s right for their particular situation.

[00:17:52] Erica: Everything on the individual market is an HMO. So that simply means that unless you have a life or limb threatening emergency, you need to stay in your network. And generally it is a hospital driven network because a carrier will have a relationship or a contract with North Side and Emory, as an example. So we do not have PPOs in this market and we have not in a very long time. There were point of service plans for awhile. They do not exist on the individual side right now. I don’t see them coming back. The big risk with the point of service that people, I don’t think really understand, is if I go to a non-participating provider. Yes, I have a separate deductible and yes, I have a higher co-insurance amount. I see that. What I don’t see is, what the accepted rate, the usual and customary, the negotiated, whatever you want to call it is. So if I go to a non-participating provider and that doctor runs up a thousand dollar bill, and my plan is going to pay 60% and I’m going to pay 40%. It’s not necessarily of that thousand dollars. If a participating provider would have accepted $150, I will get 60% of the 150. The rest of it is all on me. So that’s the big concern with the point of service plans.

[00:19:15] Rico: Is that because when you get explanation of benefits, the doctor’s bill is $1,500, but the contracted or agreed upon by the insurance could be a thousand dollars. And by the way, we’ll pay 60% of that. And you’re responsible for the other 40 of that discounted rates.

[00:19:31] Erica: That’s if you’re in network. If you go out of network, you now get a $10,000 bill negotiated down. And the in network would have paid, would have negotiated a thousand, but you’re getting 600 on a $10,000 bill. That’s the trick. And that’s where people get caught.

[00:19:49] Rico: Yeah. My daughter was in Berry college. She got hurt. She fell off a horse, equestrian rider. Had to go to Rome’s emergency hospital room out of network. I mean, had to go. That was the only hospital in the whole place. And then we get a bill like a month later, I think it was. And it was just horrendous. I mean, nothing happened with her. She just needed a scan to make sure everything was okay. But yeah, it was not good.

[00:20:13] Erica: But it should have been in network because it was life or limb threatening. So was it coded properly? I just joyfully walk into the Rome hospital cause I happened to be there, versus I just fell off a horse. That’s a whole different feeling, so that should have been treated in network, but that brings us to a whole different issue. There are, in the participating hospitals, physicians primarily radiologist, pathologist, and anesthesiologists, who are not participating. And those are the surprise bills. You may have had a surprise bill. That’s what all the legislation is discussing now, because what are you supposed to do? You can’t ask? I don’t know who’s the anesthesiologist, you know, when I’m getting my head cut open. I don’t know. So that’s going to be a real interesting discussion

[00:21:02] Rico: Because they’re individual like subcontract. This is the way I looked it. The hospitals, the shell, they like the hair salons. They have a chair and they need to make money. And that’s what they’re doing. And you’re right. And I think that was part of that issue was the, it was that part of it that really got us.

[00:21:17] Karl: If I could ask you then, what do people do about that? If you need to go for a procedure for something, are you supposed to ask? What’s best practice? Ask, is everybody that’s providing medical care to you during your surgery and post-surgery in this plan? Or how do ordinary people avoid getting those surprises?

[00:21:39] Erica: Most of it when you pre-certify a surgery, and if it’s an emergency obviously it’s a whole different story. But if I pre-certify a surgery, I’m going to the insurance company and saying, I’m having this done. And checking is the surgeon in, is the assistant surgeon? Because that’s where the problem is, the assistant surgeon. Is the hospital? You can’t really check the anesthesiologist. So that’s a big problem. But I have one client who delivered a baby. And it was about a month or so after a friend of hers that delivered a baby. And the husband took it upon himself to not have the same mistake that their friends had. He stood at the door, the entry to her room, and everybody who walked in, he asked, are you a participating provider? Because his, their friends had gotten hosed. Because every time a doctor sticks his or her head in, cha-ching, there’s a bill. So that’s the extreme, but they were so proud of themselves because they had no surprise bills.

[00:22:33] Karl: That’s fabulous. I could see someone making a shirt for that as they come in and have people sign in. I’m pretty sure that’s not how healthcare is supposed to be for most people. That’s the world that we live in. If I can come back to when you look at the options, you had mentioned new providers coming in? I don’t remember who was in last year, but there were, maybe there were more than the year before. Are there more options coming in this, do you have any insight into that yet?

[00:23:02] Erica: We had the core six, which was Ambetter, CareSource, Anthem Blue Cross, Kaiser. I’m blanking out. Oscar and somebody else. This year being added in, oh, Allied. This year, being added in are United Healthcare, Aetna as CVS. I don’t know who bought who, but they’re under CVS now. Bright Health Plans, and Friday Health Plans.

[00:23:24] Karl: Now, can I ask a question? How do people navigate, they change jobs or they move or change. They have a doctor that they like that’s in one plan. The kids have another doctor in another plan. Everyone has doctors. Either they’re dealing with chronic stuff or things that have been going on for awhile, and then they have to change insurance providers with different groups of these groups. How do people, how do you suggest people navigate that?

[00:23:54] Erica: It’s a difficult thing, especially when we have, call it skinny networks or call it limited doctors lists. In the old days, if you went from an employer plan with Aetna to an employer plan with Humana. Yeah, it was the same doctors. It was no big deal. What we’re finding now is if I’m in a plan that has a Piedmont base, it’s going to be a different set of doctors than a North Side base. So you have to be oh so careful. If someone is in the middle of something, very extensive cancer, heart condition, whatever. Many of the plans will allow that particular problem to finish with the existing doctor, as long as there’s notification. But then you do have to switch from one provider to another. And that’s a problem. So this year I’m with this pediatric group and the next year I’m with that pediatric group. And the lock-in to a doctor is a real problem. I got lucky. I found a doctor who takes everything and it’s just an incredibly wonderful old fashioned doctor. But when you’re in these practices that sell to or sell out to a hospital chain, they’re only going to be in one hospital. It’s a system. That is going to be a big problem.

[00:25:01] Karl: Got it. The other thing is in, when they’re looking at it, the different levels, gold and platinum and silver and blue and all the different levels that people have. Any thoughts on, differences between? Is it just about the dollars? Are they really worth that being distinct from each other?

[00:25:19] Erica: It depends on very specifically on what your needs are going to be for the next year. So a gold plan is going to have a higher reimbursement on your expenses than a silver or bronze or whatever. So those actuarial levels were all calculated. If you qualify for subsidy, start by looking in the silver plans. Because that’s where you may get your best bang for your buck. If you are below a certain level of the poverty level, you get that improvement in benefits, is what I call it. They have some other term, but your premium comes down. You’re out of pocket comes down, potentially. If you are very young and you never use this stuff, and there’s a young woman who called me and we’re working on her stuff right now as a Guinea pig, we have the opportunity to put in a catastrophic policy. And the thing is going to have an $8,500 deductible. This child is 26 years old, but she’ll have all of her preventative stuff covered and three primary care office visits. She doesn’t have anything. This is perfect. And the premium is $206 a month. She can afford that at that age. If I have a bunch of kids running around with antibiotics and tubes in their ears and constant this and that, I’m going to need to get a richer plan. But if you sit down with a coffee cup on a Saturday morning and a yellow pad, and you go back and say, okay, last year, what did we use? What did we do? Pull up whatever checkbooks, credit cards, EOBs, whatever you have. Lineup all the people in your family and figure out who did what. Go back a year earlier, if it was different. Look forward. And I’ve told everybody, please ask your doctor what is on the horizon. Sometimes people are just in denial, but if I’m carrying a lot of weight and I have blood pressure problems and I’m having trouble losing that weight, I’d better be aware that there’s something on the horizon for me. If I have diabetes and I don’t have it under control, what is the next level of insulin I’m going to? What does that cost? Nevermind, what can I do to push the time backwards? Bring it down to scale, but you need to be aware of how much you use it. The advantage is every year you can make a change. We are no longer medically underwritten. So the fact that you do get sick, next year, go ahead and change. And same thing with the Medicare folks, with their drug plans, oh my gosh. They need to every single year, look at their drug list and compare it in terms of what their plan is this year to what it could be next year. We are saving people all kinds of money with a little bit of homework.

[00:27:46] Rico: I mean, some insurance companies don’t want to cover certain medications. They might cover the generic. They might decide to cover the brand, but not the generic. I’ve seen that. I’m an individual business owner, right? Just me. I don’t have, I have 1099 employees, if you will. They’re subcontractors, freelancers and stuff. I would be looking at an individual policy then, versus a company policy or group policy, because there’s just me. So no different than anyone else that would be looking for themselves, pretty much. The way it used to be.

[00:28:16] Karl: What about outside of the marketplace? Who would you recommend look outside the marketplace? I understand if you have pre-existing conditions and so on, but when is that a good option for individuals, small business owners?

[00:28:31] Erica: The marketplace has all 10 carriers. In the Atlanta market, okay? Has a series of products with a pricing structure. If you are going to look for a subsidy, you have to enroll through that and get your subsidy there. On the other hand, if an employer is putting in an ICHRA, in individual coverage HRA, where they are more involved and they’re saying no, no, we still want to manage this. We just want everybody to have their own choice. There we have to be careful because standing alongside the 10 carrier marketplace plans, are 10 carrier non marketplace plans. So they’re going to be usually a little bit richer, a little bit less expensive because you can’t get the subsidy on it. But the trick now is if I put in an ICHRA, and I want my employees to be able to pre-tax their portion of the premium because now I’m paying a part of it, I have to make sure that the decisions and choices are made off the non marketplace policies. A lot of people don’t know that I’m just waiting to see what blows up next year on this, because they’re going to say Johnny went over to the marketplace and they signed up and it looks the same as off marketplace. Different coding, different rules. So it’s a little bit more complex than people realize, but the difference between the two is marginal. But it could be that the non marketplace plans could be a little richer and a little less expensive. They were this year for some carriers.

[00:29:56] Karl: So if you could share some of the dates that are coming up, I know enrollment periods are starting. Can you highlight some of the key dates people should pay attention to?

[00:30:04] Erica: Medicare open enrollment, which is for Medicare Part D Drug Plans and Medicare C, Medicare Advantage Plans, October 15th through December 7th. Unless you have a qualifying event, which means you’ve lost coverage or something else, that is your only window for a January one effective date. And you are locked in for 12 months, essentially. There are some parameters, but consider you are locked in for 12 months. The individual marketplace starts November one, next Monday. And for everybody who enrolls between Monday and the 15th of December, they will have a January one effective date. And that’s where it stopped last year. This year, the government is expanding it an extra 30 days going to January 15 for a February one effective date.

[00:30:51] Karl: Got it. Got it.

[00:30:51] Erica: Those are your key things. For many people who have group plans that seem to enroll, or it seemed to renew January one, which is a large proportion of the United States. Right about now is when everybody’s being handed their open enrollment packets and being told, make your decisions. So again, doing the little exercise, getting the yellow pads, sitting down and figuring out how do we use this stuff? In the past, you would want to get the richest plan you possibly could, because if you got sick, you could not make a change. Those days are gone. So now, what size shoe do I need this year? What size shoe do I need next year? And what size shoe did I have last year? So we really need to start paying attention to how we spend our money, premium wise and claims wise.

[00:31:36] Karl: Wow. Those dates are coming up quickly. But that’s some good tips as far as starting to look at your past spend and asking the questions of what your future spend may look like depending on your family situation, there’s pregnancies or dealing with knee surgeries or back surgeries and things of that nature. It’s the right time to make those decisions. I know there’s a lot more we can cover and talk about. And I’d love to have you back again and we can talk some more about different changes as things evolve. But if someone wanted to reach out to contact you, what’s the best way to reach Erica?

[00:32:11] Erica: Easiest, probably is my email. It’s Erica, Erica@CDAINC.net. And the office phone number is (770) 449-7369. There are six of us here, support staff and sales reps. Anybody can get the conversation started, whether it’s group or individual or Medicare, it doesn’t matter. We’re happy to help any way we can.

[00:32:37] Karl: Well, excellent. Well, it’s the fall season and going to fourth quarter, which I could imagine is a, busy time for you. Do you have anything coming up? What do you got keeping you busy this next few months?

[00:32:47] Erica: Exactly what I just discussed. Seeing a lot of clients and a number of folks who have been referred to us are coming with questions. Because there’s a lot to digest this year. More than in prior years, there are a lot of options. People really need to take a peek at what their options are because this stuff is incredibly expensive.

[00:33:08] Karl: I’d also like to add a shout out to the Southwest Gwinnett Chamber Friday coffees. You come there, you’ll meet folks like Erica. Several other folks that can help you through insurance issues and other issues for your business or for your individual self. Stop by on a Friday at 8:30 in the morning for Friday coffees with the Southwest. And Erica, I know you’re often there and that’s a good way to meet her and some of the other folks that work in this space. I want to thank you so much for joining us today and just helping with tips and helping people become more aware and every time Rico, we do this right, we learn something else.

[00:33:44] Rico: This was great. Thank you, Erica.

[00:33:46] Erica: You’re very welcome.

[00:33:46] Karl: We’re all just a little bit smarter about, just the options and the decisions that we have to face. Open enrollment is starting up soon. I think November 1st for most people. Do those exercises, talk with your families, talk with your employers about some of the plans that are outside the marketplace. And just try to do the best thing for your family. If anything, we learned over this last year is taking care of your health is really important. And you can’t plan for when you’re going to need health insurance and deal with it. All the people that got COVID, whether they have to get well at home or go out and go to a hospital. And there’s going to be some time before people recover from the health costs that were incurred. The costs to their livelihoods, their employers and so on. So it’s a smart time to think about what choices you’re making for next year. And Erica, thank you so much for helping us through that. Today we had Erica Dumpel with CDA Inc. Just sharing some of those insights on the healthcare options for folks that are out there. I’m Karl Barham with Transworld Business Advisors of Atlanta Peachtree. Our business advisors are available to help you consult on your business. Whether you’re looking to improve your business, to grow your business, or when you’re ready to exit your business. You can contact and schedule a consultation with us. My email is KBarham@TWorld.com. Or you can visit our website at www.TWorld.com/AtlantaPeachtree. Our goal is to help support the local business community in any way we can. Even if it is connecting them to experts in different areas that can help them with their business or when they’re ready to exit or sell their business, we can help them with that as well. Rico, why don’t you tell us about what you’ve got going on?

[00:35:31] Rico: Sure. We’re working on the next issue for Peachtree Corners Magazine. That actually comes out in December. But we just started working on editorial now. Lots of good stuff we’re planning on. And the latest issue is out now. You can go to LivinginPeachtreeCorners.com to check out the digital version of that. And doing the normal things that I always do. Mighty Rockets is my company. So if you’re looking for branding, marketing, social media, online management of your presence there. Just contact us and we’ll be more than happy to help you with managing your social media, video production, and podcasts even. So check us out at MightyRockets.com. So all good. It’s a great day. It stopped raining too I think.

[00:36:14] Karl: Yeah, it did. Well, thank you everybody for joining us on the Capitalist Sage Podcast, we’re going to continue to bring you local experts and business owners and just continue the conversation. So everyone have a great rest of the week. And for those get ready for Halloween this weekend. Be safe out there and watch out for the kids. Take care of everyone.

[00:36:33] Rico: Take care.

Up Next

ASHRAE Global Headquarters in Peachtree Corners Reaches ‘Fully’ Net-Zero-Energy Milestone

Don't Miss

Raise a Glass to Peachtree Corners’ Upscale Wine and Spirits Store

Peachtree Corners Magazine staff

Business

The City and PCBA Welcome Ride Lounge with Ribbon Cutting Ceremony

Published

1 month ago

June 4, 2025

Peachtree Corners Magazine staff

A group of people at an indoor ribbon cutting ceremony for Ride Lounge

The Peachtree Corners Business Association and the City of Peachtree Corners officially welcomed Ride Lounge, one of the city’s newest businesses, with a morning ribbon cutting ceremony on May 29.

From 9 a.m. to 10:30 a.m., members of the city and PCBA, along with members of the community, enjoyed mingling, getting to know the Ride Lounge staff and learning more about the unique company.

A group of men at an indoor ribbon cutting ceremony for Ride Lounge

Guests also enjoyed a light breakfast spread of bagels, fresh fruit, coffee and juice and brief speeches from featured guests.

Welcoming the business

Lisa Procter from the PCBA spoke first and thanked Ride Lounge for being part of the PCBA and the Peachtree Corners community. She also recognized the collaboration between the organization and Ride Lounge in hosting the ribbon cutting.

“The PCBA was proud to coordinate with Ride Lounge and the community to make this event a success,” Procter shared.

Mayor Mike Mason followed Procter in addressing the crowd and talked about the state of business in Peachtree Corners and how companies like Ride Lounge help make the city a great place to live and work.

Dave Codrea and Josh Friedensohn, founders of Ride Lounge, then thanked everyone for coming and shared a little about the company and their vision.

The cutting of the ribbon and photos followed the brief speeches. Afterwards, the crowd was invited to tour the space and spend more time chatting and networking.

About Ride Lounge

The Ride Lounge is more than a car storage facility, it’s a place that celebrates car culture; where car enthusiasts can meet to discuss their passion and show off their vehicles.

Founders Dave and Josh wanted to create a welcoming community that people would trust to store their vehicles, but that would also offer a club-like atmosphere and host fun, car-centered events that the whole family could enjoy.

Ride Lounge’s 20,300-square-foot facility is comprised of 58 parking spaces with the potential to include car lifts in certain areas. There are cozy seating areas, a meeting space and kitchen area so members can hang out, relax and talk cars.

Designed for cars that are driven and enjoyed by families, Ride Lounge has room to hold up to 400 people for special events and activities.

To learn more about Ride Lounge, visit ride-lounge.com.

For more about the PCBA, visit peachtreecornersba.com.

Business

Music Matters Productions Expands Peachtree Corners Headquarters

Published

2 months ago

May 21, 2025

Peachtree Corners Magazine staff

Interior of a spacious, clean and well-organized music production warehouse. There are tall ceilings with rows of lights, metal shelves full of audio/visual equipment and larger pieces of equipment grouped on the floor throughout the space.

Company adds 20,000 square feet to meet growing demand

Music Matters Productions (MMP), a premier provider of audio, lighting, video, staging and rigging solutions, has expanded its metro Atlanta headquarters, increasing the total warehouse footprint from 40,000 to 60,000 square feet.

In addition, MMP has opened a second 10,000-square-foot building directly across the street to house its growing corporate production division.

The expansion comes in response to increased demand across touring, festival and corporate markets, as well as the continued growth of MMP’s high-end gear inventory. With a fully dedicated shop for each department, including audio, lighting, video, rigging and staging, the new layout provides more space for show prep, pre-rigging and crew coordination, allowing for even more efficient load-ins and streamlined execution.

New features

The rigging department now features a new mobile motor hoist test stand, allowing for in-house motor certification, a service that’s now available to external clients in the production community.

Large warehouse space full of audio/visual equipment — Photo courtesy of Music Matters Productions

Five new truck bays were added in the process, as well, bringing the total number of bays to 17 — an important upgrade for MMP’s fleet and the increasing number of shows moving through the warehouse each week.

“This growth is a direct reflection of the work our team puts in and the trust our clients place in us,” said Aaron Soriero, owner of Music Matters Productions. “We didn’t expand for the sake of being bigger, we expanded because we needed the space to do the job right. More room means tighter prep, faster turns and better support for our clients.”

Expanding operations

The expanded warehouse and building across the street include additional offices, mixed-use areas and a dedicated repairs department, giving the team more capacity to prep, collaborate, QC and scale for increasingly complex events — both corporate and entertainment.

With a reputation built on reliable gear, experienced crews and an enhanced client experience, MMP continues to solidify its role as a go-to production partner for events of every size and setting — whether it’s a beachside festival, a stadium tour, brand activation or a high-stakes corporate show.

About Music Matters Productions

Music Matters Productions is a full-service live event production company based in Peachtree Corners, Georgia, providing industry-leading audio, lighting, video, rigging and staging solutions for tours, festivals, brand activations and corporate events across the country.

Known for its high-end inventory, seasoned crew and deep dedication to doing the job right, MMP supports hundreds of productions each year and is trusted by clients nationwide.

For more information, visit mmp-atl.com.

Business

From Boardrooms to the Himalayas: Vandana’s Journey to Purpose and Growing with Intention [Podcast]

Published

2 months ago

May 19, 2025

Peachtree Corners Magazine staff

How one family blends operational clarity, conscious leadership, and community-driven values to grow their business — together.

In this episode of UrbanEbb, host Rico Figliolini chats with Vandana Aggarwal, VP of Operations at Aggarwal Real Estate, about the winding road from global consulting to family-run commercial real estate in Norcross, Georgia. With honesty, warmth and insight, V shares how she went from working 80-hour weeks in corporate strategy to rediscovering clarity in the mountains of India — ultimately helping transform her family’s business into a community-driven real estate firm managing over 50 shopping centers.

The conversation weaves together themes of leadership, legacy, operational excellence and the transformative power of both AI and yoga. It’s a story about clarity, courage and conscious growth — both in business and in life. This is another episode you won’t want to miss.

Episode Highlights

Why Vandana left a high-powered consulting career to join her family business
How hiking Kilimanjaro and studying yoga in the Himalayas changed her leadership mindset
The operational overhaul she brought to Aggarwal Real Estate to support growth
What it’s like working side-by-side with your dad, siblings, and 700+ tenants
How the company rebranded with intention and built a mission around “building communities as a community”
Where AI is reshaping real estate—from lease drafting to property management—and where it still can’t compete with people
Leadership succession planning with siblings at the helm
The importance of clarity, calm, and conscious growth in both business and life

About Vandana Aggarwal

Vandana Aggarwal is the Vice President of Operations at Aggarwal Real Estate, her family’s commercial real estate investment and management firm. She brings a unique blend of strategic insight and operational excellence, shaped by her early career as a consultant at A.T. Kearney, where she advised Fortune 100 to 500 companies. A graduate of Georgia Tech, she also took a transformative detour from the corporate world to spend a year in India teaching yoga—an experience that continues to influence her leadership style today. At the core of her work is a deep commitment to family and a passion for building strong, connected communities.

Timestamp:

00:00:00 – Introduction and sponsors: Vox Pop Uli & EV Remodeling
00:03:12 – From Georgia Tech to global consulting
00:04:23 – Leading strategy for Fortune 500 companies
00:06:11 – The role of vision alignment at the C-suite
00:08:01 – Sabbatical becomes family business overhaul
00:09:35 – Bringing operational excellence to a growing real estate firm
00:12:02 – A year of yoga, nature, and healing in India
00:17:03 – Hiking Kilimanjaro, testing limits, and expanding self-trust
00:18:52 – Navigating family dynamics inside a business
00:21:56 – Planning for leadership transition: siblings, strategy, succession
00:24:06 – Rebranding the business: from American Management to Aggarwal Real Estate
00:26:33 – Where AI fits (and doesn’t) in real estate operations
00:30:04 – Legal, leasing, HR, and marketing efficiency with tech
00:31:01 – Community-focused retail and experiential shopping centers
00:32:00 – Reflections on AI, journalism, and digital trust
00:32:57 – Closing thoughts

Podcast Transcript

00:00:00 – Rico Figliolini

Hi, everyone. This is Rico Figliolini, host of UrbanEbb. This podcast comes out of the city of Peachtree Corners, and we have a special guest today. And if I don’t mess up the name, it’s Vandana Aggarwal.

00:00:15 – Vandana Aggarwal

Absolutely. You can call me V, Rico.

00:00:15 – Rico Figliolini

I’m going to call you V, trust me. And I’m Rico Figliolini, so a bit of a long name there. But V is VP of Operations of Aggarwal Real Estate here, based in Peachtree Corners? No, Norcross.

00:00:30 – Vandana Aggarwal

In Norcross, yeah. Norcross, Georgia.

00:00:32 – Rico Figliolini

Yeah, yeah. Just off 85, and?

00:00:34 – Vandana Aggarwal

Jimmy Carter.

00:00:35 – Rico Figliolini

And Jimmy Carter.

00:00:36 – Vandana Aggarwal

We’re completing each other’s sentences already.

00:00:39 – Rico Figliolini

But where are we doing this? We’re doing this from one of our great sponsors, one of our two great sponsors, Vox Pop Uli. Was this tastefully obnoxious? Let me tell you, I asked them to do a corner cut for us, and this is perfect. So they have the Moxie logo and stuff. So they’re branding, right? Same way they can brand your stuff. They’ll put your logo on anything. They’ve done, I think, 6,000 vehicle wraps. They’ve done garments, obviously. They could do one-offs or they could do 1,000. They do trade show booths, wraps, everything. So anything you need a logo on, think of what object you want it on. They’ll figure it out for you. And if you’re doing, let’s say, 5,000 mailers and you want that database customized for each postcard, they could do that also. It’s called data. I forget what it’s called, but they can do that. They can work the data into the printing as well. So all customizable. Check them out, voxpopuli.com. Now, getting to something we were talking about, hands-on stuff, which is this also. This can’t just be done by machines, right? Although machines, you still need people. But EV Remodeling Inc., they are a remodeling company. They can do design to build. They can do whole house renovation. They can create your deck, your backyard gazebo. They can put a bathroom, kitchen, anything you want. EV Remodeling Inc. is owned by Eli and his family. Lives in Peachtree Corners. It’s based out of our city. They’ve done, I think, over 250 homes recently. So check them out, evremodelinginc.com. And I want to thank both of them for being great sponsors of ours. So, it’s always a long stretch doing that, but I’m glad to have you, V.

00:02:22 – Vandana Aggarwal

I’m happy to be here. Thank you for inviting me onto your podcast. Excited to chat with you.

00:02:25 – Rico Figliolini

Yeah, no, this is cool. Well, you know, I met you, where did I meet you at? I think it was the chamber.

00:02:30 – Vandana Aggarwal

Yeah, the Southwest Gwinnett Chamber event.

00:02:32 – Rico Figliolini

Yeah, and we were talking a bit, and I was like, damn, you know, I had my father owned a business, and he wanted his kids to be in it. None of us, none of us could go into that business. It’s a little difficult, different industry. It was a hard industry, plus my father was very patriarchal, very over-demanding. God bless him. He mellowed in age. But when you were telling me about your family, I mean, your father, your mother, your sister, your brother, and you, I mean, all in it. It’s amazing.

00:02:55 – Vandana Aggarwal

We’re all together. We’re the modern-day Brady Bunch.

00:03:03 – Rico Figliolini

I love it. Yes, that’s exactly it. But, let’s start a little bit. I mean, you were telling me, I mean, you came from a consulting world. You came where you were actually being paid a lot more than you’re being paid right now, actually.

00:03:12 – Vandana Aggarwal

I told my father he couldn’t afford me when he recruited me out. So I graduated from Georgia Tech in 2007. I actually did join his company right out of college for two years, learned a lot about the company. He actually had me go through a rotation in every department of the company to learn more about what we did, how we operated. And I think very quickly, it was also 2008-9 with a recession. But I was also very interested to learn how big companies operate. How can you take a small company at that time? We were much smaller than we are today and really understand how do you go from this, which is where everyone starts, right? As a new company to get to be one of the largest in the nation, in the world and see how they operate, how they grew it from, you know, a mom and pop business to this global enterprise. Consulting was a natural transition to learn about multiple companies, multiple industries. So transitioned into AT Kearney, which has now been rebranded as Kearney, and out of their Chicago office. So I was there for seven to eight years, almost eight years.

00:04:23 – Rico Figliolini

Entry-level position you got in?

00:04:24 – Vandana Aggarwal

Yeah, I went in as an analyst. The good thing with that experience was by the time I left, I was a senior manager with Kearney. I worked across 17 different companies in those eight years. So I got to experience how CPG companies, retail companies, transportation, IT, you name it, I’ve done it. In terms of the different types of industries I got to work with, worked with a lot of Fortune 100 to 500 companies at the C-suite level. So we were coming up with all kinds of strategy projects such as new market entries, mergers and acquisitions. A lot of what I ended up specializing in in those seven years was operational efficiency and growth strategy. So it was an amazing, I’m grateful for that learning experience, the you know the caliber of minds that you work with. You also get to experience what the C-suite looks like. How does the very top operate and then it goes from the top down right? So it is very much led at this very top leadership and you see how companies change in their culture the way they operate based on how the top is designed.

00:05:38 – Rico Figliolini

So did you see good and bad at the top?

00:05:41 – Vandana Aggarwal

Absolutely. And I’m not going to name names. But you learn a lot when you see how your CEO and your C-suite right below them, the culture they’re bringing into a company and their vision and their goals if they’re aligned, unaligned. Anyone that at the very top have different viewpoints of where the company has had it is where companies start to break apart, lose revenue, lose their you know people, which is very important.

00:06:11 – Rico Figliolini

Where did you see the pain point then? What was the common denominator I guess of those?

00:06:18 – Vandana Aggarwal

There’s no one common denominator, but if I had to kind of narrow in, it comes down to what is our five-year, ten-year trajectory? Where are we headed? As large companies grow, you’re not just in one industry. You’re not just doing retail shopping centers. You’re investing in all kinds of properties just to bring it back to our company. Similarly, a CPG company can make all kinds of products, so they have to decide what it is because you have to be concentrated on the right places. If you have a leadership team that is in alignment of what that ultimate goal is, right, then you have clear strategies and, you know, metrics you’re measuring your success against. So that was a big thing that I learned. Also just, you know, seeing how great leaders operate, right? Some of the best in the nation today, I got to be in the room with them and just to see how they lead is very important.

00:07:14 – Rico Figliolini

Did you see any family dynamics in any of those businesses?

00:07:20 – Vandana Aggarwal

No. You know, there may have been like a father-son duo, but when you’re looking at the very top, I won’t say it was like all in the family, right? You know, and it also becomes the size of a company, right? You know, when you get to an international scale, you’re not always blessed that every person in your family has the right skill set and experience to fill each role on that C-suite.

00:07:46 – Rico Figliolini

I’m just thinking Trump for some reason. Every kid has a job.

00:07:51 – Vandana Aggarwal

Every kid has a job.

00:07:52 – Vandana Aggarwal

You had the accent, right?

00:07:54 – Rico Figliolini

Pretty much, I guess. So after the C-suite or expansion, you traveled a lot too, I think, right?

00:08:01 – Vandana Aggarwal

I did, yeah. So after my seven, eight years in consulting, I was reaching 30. And Shiv, my father, came to me and he said, you know, you’re doing this for a lot of outside companies. Why don’t you help us grow and bring your expertise home? And I said, look, I’ll take a sabbatical. Let me assess the company. And after that period where I took a short sabbatical to come look at how we were operating, I said, I can give you three years. I said, you can’t afford me, but I’ll give you three years of my time. And I said, I think it’ll be the right, it was the right time in the company. We were investing very heavily. We were bringing in a lot of new square footage into the company, and we weren’t designed to manage it. So we as a company, as you know, we are the investors. We have an in-house management company, an in-house leasing company. So as we acquire new properties, our team does the management for those properties in-house. We don’t provide third-party services today. And we do the leasing in-house. But at that time, when he, you know Shiv started we had one or two and now we’re at 50 shopping centers plus and other investments that we have. And there’s a very different way you operate you know and how do you how does the CEO go from being an operator to where he’s overseeing it, but he’s not into the weeds right? So he has create a system for that to happen right? You have to have standard operating processes for your property managers, your accounting team, your marketing team.

00:09:35 – Rico Figliolini

And you quite didn’t have that before.

00:09:37 – Vandana Aggarwal

We didn’t, no. And, you know, and I think that’s why he wanted to bring me in is because my strength is operations and I love it. I love going into messy places and cleaning them up.

00:09:49 – Rico Figliolini

Is that what you did when you were a consultant?

00:09:51 – Vandana Aggarwal

A lot of what I was concentrating on at the end of my consulting career, yes. So I did a lot of operational efficiency work. So we’d go in, assess the way companies were designed. And we’d interview hundreds of team members to understand what their role is. You know, what are they responsible for? How are they delivering? What are they measuring for success? And then we’d redesign the way they did that based on, again, bottom line, what are your ultimate goals for the company?

00:10:21 – Rico Figliolini

So you had to understand that before you got to that point. And you’re not making the decisions, the C-level.

00:10:29 – Vandana Aggarwal

Present, right? And similarly even with Shiv, when I first joined, I said, look, this is how I think we need to redesign the company from a bottoms-up perspective based on ultimately our goal of growth, doubling, tripling in size over the next ten years. And I think this is where the father dynamic came in. I guess he trusted me. And he said, do it. He just said, do it. And it was beautiful because right when you’re with large companies, it’s a lot of time before you get. Those decisions made and that trust, right? And so it was great. And he said, yeah, just put it into place.

00:11:07 – Rico Figliolini

See, that’s a great dad, actually. Some dads would be like, I don’t know about that daughter or son or whatever.

00:11:16 – Vandana Aggarwal

It did take time, though, like to ultimately, he was in the operation so heavily. And, you know, until today, I’m still like, step up, step up. Like, I need you to not get into the weeds. Like I think at that time we had tenants calling him, maintenance guys calling him. Like every little and big problem would go through his cell phone. I said, you’re too smart and you’re such a good investor. This is not your skill set. You shouldn’t be managing this. You need to bring people on who are expertise in this area. And I said, you need to be focused on like the larger plan.

00:11:51 – Rico Figliolini

This way you can grow it better.

00:11:51 – Vandana Aggarwal

Which I think has been very successful over the last eight years I’ve been with him now.

00:11:57 – Rico Figliolini

So before you got to him, though, you were traveling a bit internationally as well?

00:12:02 – Vandana Aggarwal

Yeah, yeah. So this is an amazing year. I was very burnt out. By the time I left consulting, I was working 70 to 80-hour weeks, traveling Monday through Thursday, if not more than that, of the week. So I told Shiv, I was like, I’m going to take a month. I’m going to go to India, get my yoga certification. No intention to teach at the time. I just said it’d be a great one-month retreat. And I was up in the mountains like Himalayas and India in a city called Dharamshala. Beautiful place. One of my favorites in the world. And I just, I think I needed it for myself emotionally, mentally to take that break. So I turned one month into one year. I didn’t know it was going to be a year.

00:12:49 – Rico Figliolini

In that same city? In that same town?

00:12:50 – Vandana Aggarwal

Yeah, so I ended up the school that I had gotten my certification with. I asked them, I was like, do you mind if I hang around for a little while? Like very casually, I’m like, you know, I’ll pay for my room and board, but I just want to be around this group and this energy. And they said, well, if you’re going to be here, why don’t you intern? And they’re like, room and board is free if you intern. I was like, sure. You know, not thinking what it was leading to. This is like that beauty of the universe coming into play. Yeah, so I started teaching, ended up loving teaching. So then I ended up teaching the 200-hour yoga training course. And I was in Dharamshala for four months. And then I moved down to Goa, their Goa campus for another six.

00:13:30 – Rico Figliolini

Where is that? Goa?

00:13:32 – Vandana Aggarwal

Goa? It’s in southern India on their west coast. It’s a beach town. Yeah. So I had the mountains and the beach. But I’m a mountain girl. I’m a hiker. But no, it was a beautiful experience. Very different from anything I’ve done with my career, right? But I became a yoga teacher for a year.

00:13:52 – Rico Figliolini

Did that clear your head? Yoga, they say, can do that, right?

00:13:53 – Vandana Aggarwal

Yeah, it’s all the tools of yoga, right? The meditation, the breath work, really getting internal, going in, right? Just going inwards, being quiet, which we don’t have. We have a lot of noise in our life today, you know? And naturally, right? Between family life, work life, social, and then just all of the noise from everything else right? Like we’re sitting here and I can hear the cars right? So you know that difference was when I was sitting there, I could hear the ocean waves and so there’s something very healing in nature naturally. So it was the tools mixed with nature and I still think nature has a very strong healing power on us. So whenever I can, I try to get out on a mountain and by the ocean. But yeah no it was it was a beautiful experience but it did bring a level of calmness into the way I approach things. It changes your perspective of you know at the end everything’s okay. No matter what you’re going through it’s temporary you’re, and everything that’s happening to us is happening to us for the good. We don’t know it, sometimes it seems like a bad situation in the moment, but ultimately you know, universe, God, whatever you believe in is at play to bring you something better in your life. And you just have to step back to understand what is it delivering us.

00:15:19 – Rico Figliolini

I like the way you think. My wife every once in a while would say, aren’t you upset about that? I’m like, I think come tomorrow, it won’t mean anything. There’s no point in, just relax. Not everything, two days later, it’s not as important as it seemed at that moment.

00:15:37 – Vandana Aggarwal

Yeah. And it’s not just that it’s not as important. It’s also like…

00:15:41 – Rico Figliolini

In perspective?

00:15:42 – Vandana Aggarwal

It’s, what am I gaining from this? Like, what can I gain from this? Oftentimes when, you know, a lot of things happen, yeah, like you get hurt or, you know, it’s like in relationships, right? Or if you have a bad business deal, right? It’s like, hey, how am I growing, right? And I think that’s what makes life very exciting, right? Otherwise, if you’re always living on a high, is it a high?

00:16:06 – Rico Figliolini

Yes. So I’m thinking you were a consultant for seven or eight years. 80 hours a week. And all of a sudden you’re doing yoga on the mountains of India. It’s just like, it’s almost like a movie. It’s almost like…

00:16:18 – Vandana Aggarwal

Eat, pray, love?

00:16:19 – Rico Figliolini

Yes.

00:16:20 – Vandana Aggarwal

It was my eat, pray, love moment for a year.

00:16:23 – Rico Figliolini

That’s amazing.

00:16:24 – Vandana Aggarwal

No, you meet amazing people, but I think we were meant to meet everyone that we come in interaction with on a daily basis. You naturally have a connection. There’s a universe at play, and we were meant to cross paths and learn something from each other, gain something from one another, give to the other person. And I think you just have to look at life that way.

00:16:48 – Rico Figliolini

I definitely think along that way. I mean, I definitely think each of us nudges each other in a crowd a little bit. That one nudge can set you off going in a different direction. So I totally believe in that. So you joined your dad. Yes. And you’re, so actually, even before we get there, so yoga, but what other interests have you been?

00:17:03 – Vandana Aggarwal

Yeah. So, I mean, I’m an avid hiker. I’ve done recently in the last few years, I’ve climbed Kilimanjaro. I did the Machu Picchu trail. I’ve done a few 14ers out in Colorado, but I like to test myself physically. You know, just, again, it comes down to how do we find that push within us past our comfort zone? So is this a physical inability or is it a mental constraint? So to get past that mental constraint of discomfort and then really push yourself to the next level and say, I can achieve something. It’s not going to be easy. So to me, if I’m on a hike and it’s not hard, I’m like, well, was it a hike? Like it didn’t test me, but no I think, you know.

00:17:55 – Rico Figliolini

You should do the Appalachian Trail. That’s like 2000 plus miles.

00:18:03 – Vandana Aggarwal

I know. And it is, you know, it’s not just like the hiking part. It is like living out in nature and, you know, sleeping in uncomfortable conditions. Yeah. Walking in the rain. It’s cold. I think the last day of our Kilimanjaro hike, it was negative 20 degrees up in the mountain and my eyelashes were frozen and I couldn’t feel any part of my body. And, you know, and it tested my breathing. And there is that element of push yourself to the point that it’s not your ego anymore. Like if your body’s saying stop, you have to stop as well and respect your body. But yeah, to really test yourself.

00:18:38 – Rico Figliolini

To circle all that back now, you’re back home. You’re working with your father and your family. A lot of businesses grow or die because of family. If it’s a family business, right?

00:18:52 – Vandana Aggarwal

Absolutely, yeah.

00:18:53 – Rico Figliolini

So you have your highs, your lows, your, sometimes you don’t get along. Sometimes decisions are split. People get upset with each other. So you’ve been at your highs and lows physically and mentally doing other things. Has that helped you in some ways? Not that you’re having a bad time with family. Because it sounds like you all fit just fine, like the Brady Bunch.

00:19:15 – Vandana Aggarwal

Let’s keep it that way. No, I mean, there’s multiple dynamics at play. It is a family business. My father is also my boss. My siblings are also my friends and my coworkers. And it’s about no matter how hard you try, you cannot separate those relationships. There is an interplay of all of it when you spend eight to nine hours a day together. But we all have, again, a common goal for the company. And then a common goal for our personal relationship. So when we sit down, we keep in mind that we like each other and we want to keep it that way. Like very simply put, that’s first and foremost for me especially. Even when Shiv had brought me in, he said, oh, can you manage everyone? And I said, I’ll manage everyone but my brother and sister. I said, you know, like I won’t jeopardize the relationship I have with them as a sibling by being their manager. Especially because I said that’s your job like good luck. But not just that it’s you know we all have different skill sets so I said how do I manage my brother who is a genius he’s a CPA by trade you know like I can’t tell him how to run the financials of this company like he’s supposed to teach me that right? And same way I teach him that. My sister has a master’s in marketing right? She is by far the most social, likable person you’re going to meet, and she knows how to work with people. I said, she needs to teach us that. So I think we’re lucky that each of us, and this is, I think, rare, where you have three kids and each one of them has their own skill set. That, I think, helps us stay in business and we see ourselves foreseeably into the long-term future being in business together is because we each bring something very unique to the table. Ultimately we value the relationships that we have on a personal level as a family above all else right? And then you know the element of like, how does the yoga experience a hiking experience teach us. That’s, it’s not specific to anyone’s situation, I think it’s a baseline of who you become right? The foundation. Like it teaches you patience, it teaches you again, everything is temporary so let’s not get overly attached emotionally or get upset or too joyful, even like, let’s just stay neutralized on any situation because it will end. And then the next one will come up and kind of flow with the ebbs and flows of the ocean. You, you flow with everything that comes with you, comes your way at work, at home. But yeah, I mean, we do sit down as a leadership team. I, my father and my siblings and I, and we talk about, hey, we separately do the exercise. Where are we going to be in five years? What role do we play in that journey? And thankfully, all of ours are very similar in what our goals are. And then we have different skill sets that we bring. So even as we design the future of the company in a moment where my father is not at the head of the table, we’re working on that redesign work. But it’s very conscious. It’s very intentional. Again, we all step back and say, hey, look, how do we maintain, how do we solve problems? Because like, you know, we were talking about how tomorrow we may not agree on something, a big decision. What are we investing in? Come back to, you know, right now Shiv gets to make an ultimate decision because he’s the one leader at the top. Tomorrow it’s going to be three people at the top. How do you deal?

00:23:04 – Rico Figliolini

So is there an exit plan for your dad? Well, not an exit plan.

00:23:09 – Vandana Aggarwal

Not an exit plan. He already has. I think he, you know, he’s gone from, he’s the hardest working person I know. I get that from him. We’re addicted to work.

00:23:18 – Rico Figliolini

80 hours a week.

00:23:21 – Vandana Aggarwal

We love working. You know, this company is his baby. I think I’ve adopted it at this point and we all have. But, to stay mentally sharp, to stay alive, you have to keep working. You have to keep doing something. You have to be working towards something that brings you joy and purpose. And I think, you know, he stepped back to take time towards a lot of his nonprofit work, community work that he’s very much engaged with. But he’s still at the top. He’s still running, you know, his, you know, he’s, you know, not slowing down. You know, we’re constantly growing. We’re growing this year in a large scale, which is amazing, and he’s leading that charge.

00:23:59 – Rico Figliolini

How many properties do you own?

00:24:02 – Vandana Aggarwall

Today we have 50 shopping centers and then a few other assets.

00:24:06 – Rico Figliolini

Is that like 3 million square feet or something? 4 million?

00:24:10 – Vandana Aggarwal

Yeah, over 700 tenants. But, you know, when we sat down a few years ago, we rebranded. Aggarwal Real Estate didn’t exist until two years ago. It was American Management Services. And we had a rebranding effort because we said we want the company’s name and the brand to represent who we are.

00:24:33 – Rico Figliolini

I like that, by the way.

00:24:35 – Vandana Aggarwal

Yeah, it needs to mean something. And we were also proud of what our father has achieved, right? He’s given us this beautiful life that we get to help grow upon. So we said it needs to pay homage to him. So we said, let’s make it Aggarwal Real Estate, ARE. And then as we were deciding what that vision is, we’re a family. In the company, we are a family, not just the four of us, but all of our staff, our team. We don’t, you know, we don’t look at them separate from who we are. And so we said our mission as a company is building communities as a community. And it talks about, hey, in all of the real estate work we’re doing, we try to make sure all of our properties are beautiful. Our tenants are happy. They have direct access to each of us in the company. And on top of that, as a company, we are a community within ourselves because we can’t create them until we are one. So it was very intentional to who we already were, but putting it into brand terms.

00:25:37 – Rico Figliolini

It’s amazing. All that property, tenants. Can’t imagine father tech can send text messages on all their problems, if they have any.

00:25:45 – Vandana Aggarwal

He’s a brilliant man.

00:25:45 – Rico Figliolini

You could be too possessed on that stuff. We want to be cognizant of our time together.

00:25:55 – Vandana Aggarwal

Absolutely.

00:25:57 – Rico Figliolini

So the next subject really was going to be about also AI, because everyone’s talking about AI. We were talking about that before the show started, before we started recording, which was kind of funny because V was asking me if we edit anything. And I was like, no, straight through.

00:26:11 – Vandana Aggarwal

I wanted to see if I could say a few things and then have it taken out of this conversation.

00:26:13 – Rico Figliolini

Nope. Nope. Doesn’t work that way. So, but ChatGPT, AI, that’s all. I mean, you know, could I create a bot to edit this? Probably. But there’s so many things we use in our lives. And you’ve been talking about how it would affect your business. Nevermind the consulting work you did.

00:26:33 – Vandana Aggarwal

Yeah. I mean, the consulting world is, I mean, it depends on the industry, the type of work you’re doing. In real estate, I’ve put a lot of thought behind this. There’s a lot of conversations happening across every industry, every sector, whether it’s education, automotives, real estate, et cetera. Everything’s being discussed. How is that changing the future? How do we incorporate it to be more efficient, right? Be the best in the industry that we can be or operate better. And so for me it’s again comes down to that operations element that I think about like, how do I incorporate it for a company that’s a medium-sized real estate firm today as we become a large company, a bigger player in the market. And people are very important in real estate right?

00:27:17 – Rico Figliolini

Talk about editing?

00:27:20 – Vandana Aggarwal

I was telling you, we should bring them into the podcast.

00:27:27 – Rico Figliolini

We’re going to run a little longer on this.

00:27:36 – Vandana Aggarwal

But let’s take retail shopping centers. This is brick and mortar. I did a paper actually for a large mall retailer back in my consulting days on how the title of the paper was, is brick and mortar dead? And, you know, full circle, I am fully dedicated to brick and mortar, retail, office, multifamily now. But you still need people to clean up your properties, fix your maintenance issues. We were talking about roofing, plumbing, electrical. That is hands-on work. You know, today there is, it’s going to be a long time before there’s a robot that comes in to do that. There will be. I don’t know. I do not see that in 10 years to say we’ve got roofers that are robotic drones that are going to come fix my roof problems.

00:28:24 – Rico Figliolini

Zumbas, they’re going to run around the roof or something.

00:28:26 – Vandana Aggarwal

That’s actually genius. A Zumba for my roof.

00:28:31 – Rico Figliolini

Why not? Attach it to the right thing.

00:28:33 – Vandana Aggarwal

But so those are very people-oriented roles today. Technology will advance how quickly it’s done or how well it’s done. But you’ll still need someone to operate the machinery of it and everything.

00:28:49 – Rico Figliolini

Just not as many.

00:28:50 – Vandana Aggarwal

Yeah. Construction, similarly, right?

00:28:54 – Rico Figliolini

Unless you 3D print a house. I’m sorry.

00:28:56 – Vandana Aggarwal

No, it’s true. It’s true. There’s so many options. I’m thinking 10 years now. I’m not going to have a 3D printer making the metal framing for my new construction project. You know, or installing the sheetrock, it does probably speed up the process, right? There will be machinery to help with that, a lot of AI development in that way. It’s a lot at an office administrative level, right? The speed in which you’re processing invoices, the speed in which you are, you know, getting payments taken in. Today, I would say as far back as right before COVID, we were still accepting checks for money. Now it’s all online. Like we do not accept money coming into the office, or it’s very limited to what we do, right? So that’s AI, if you think about it, right? The ability to pay online.

00:29:42 – Rico Figliolini

QuickBooks Online uses AI now, you can enable it.

00:29:47 – Vandana Aggarwal

So we’ve been using it for many years. The advancement of it has been a little bit slower, and now it’s sped up. Marketing, we were just talking about how you created a flyer on ChatGPT, was it?

00:30:00 – Rico Figliolini

I won’t talk about the student that’s helping us out here and how they use AI.

00:30:04 – Vandana Aggarwal

No, AI in school, right? But yeah, it’s an AI processor for my HR roles, right? Instead of reading 100 resumes, it’s going through the system to filter them out. Whether it’s writing contracts, I won’t lie. Legal jargon is coming out of ChatGPT today. And so it’s speeding up the way we’re doing work. But my legal team probably, and they won’t say it, should be using AI if they’re not. To help create some of this work right? So it’s like these companies are still going to be needed, but the way that they’re able to respond to us at a quicker, everything would just happen faster right? From typewriters to computers, everything.

00:30:49 – Rico Figliolini

Especially if they know that they just did a lease from you for this property in Texas, that we need three more leases done for three other places, it’s not going to be that much different, right? It’s a template.

00:31:01 – Vandana Aggarwal

It’s coming out a lot faster. Yeah, I mean the negotiations, that’s a people-to-people thing right? So I think thankfully in the real estate world we’re still going to need people. We’re still going to need buildings right? The way built, we were just talking about how a retail shopping center is no longer just for shopping. It has to be for entertainment. It has to be for bringing families in and giving them more than just, hey, go into a TJ Maxx and buy something, right? It’s like, what else are you getting when you’re at that center? Whether it’s a play space or events, we’re starting to do more events at our shopping centers. So it’s, again, serving the community.

00:31:39 – Rico Figliolini

We’re seeing that more. More of that happening. We could go on and on here.

00:31:46 – Vandana Aggarwal

Chatting with you.

00:31:46 – Rico Figliolini

Yeah, and we should probably do one on either AI in the marketplace. Or maybe a panel discussion on something similar.

00:31:51 – Vandana Aggarwal

Yeah, overall, yeah. That would be exciting.

00:31:55 – Rico Figliolini

Yeah, I think that would be cool.

00:31:56 – Vandana Aggarwal

I think it’s interesting to learn about kind of where every industry is heading. It impacts all of us.

00:32:00 – Rico Figliolini

For sure. I mean, the magazine business, I mean, it’s all like we have certain, we have AI rules. But, you know, AI is still being used to degree to research things. And to do certain things like that. You know, hopefully journalism isn’t just handed over. They do say 40% of the internet is AI written. So, which is kind of incestuous almost because it’ll just feed on itself at some point.

00:32:27 – Vandana Aggarwal

There’s a whole discussion about the validity and the trust behind digital content. In the next few years. I think it’s going to diminish.

00:32:35 – Rico Figliolini

Oh, yeah. I mean, I’m seeing videos now and it’s just like, it just looks so real. And you could not tell the difference, even voice-wise.

00:32:42 – Vandana Aggarwal

And that’s scary to think. It’s like, how do you trust what you see?

00:32:47 – Rico Figliolini

So on that note, and since this is not edited, so this is right from the beginning. So this is all true. But I want to thank everyone. I want to thank you, V, for being with me.

00:32:57 – Vandana Aggarwal

Thank you so much for having me. This was a great conversation.

00:33:01 – Rico Figliolini

It went by way faster than some of these go. So this is a great discussion. Thank you, everyone. I appreciate you for joining us. Thank you for Vox Pop Uli for the studio look and for letting us do it here, for being a sponsor and for EV Remodeling. Also, I want to thank Jeremy Pruitt behind the camera who has taken care. He’s a Paul Duke student. And it wasn’t him that I was talking about before, by the way. But all the work he’s done on the back end on this. So thank you, Jeremy. So thank you all. Thanks for being with us.