On this special episode of the Capitalist Sage, Karl Barham and Rico Figliolini sit down with Democrat Carolyn Bourdeaux, who is running for Congress in Georgia’s 7th District. Join them as Carolyn shares her views on healthcare, education, immigration and much more.
“Everybody wants affordable quality healthcare. We all want that. We all need that. We need that for our families, for our businesses, for our community. How we get there. We can come up with different ways to get there.”Carolyn Bourdeaux
[00:00:30] – Intro
[00:04:30] – Carolyn’s Background
[00:06:11] – Taking a Closer Look at Healthcare
[00:13:43] – Uniting the Parties
[00:18:37] – Data and Privacy
[00:21:40] – Education
[00:28:46] – Bi-Partisan Work
[00:29:37] – Immigration Issues
[00:34:59] – Carolyn’s Race
[00:36:57] – Closing
Karl: [00:00:30] Welcome to the Capitalist Sage Podcast where we talk to business owners, leaders in the community about things that matter here in Peachtree Corners, in surrounding areas, where informed people, share information with folks, and just help people understand some of the issues that might be impacting, whether it’s their lives, their homes, their businesses, and so on. I’m Karl Barham with a Transworld Business Advisors, and my co host is Rico Figliolini, Mighty Rockets Digital Marketing, and the publisher of the Peachtree Corners Cagazine. Hey, Rico, how are you doing today?
Rico: [00:01:05] Hey, Karl. Good, good. Let’s talk about some sponsors.
Karl: [00:01:08] Yeah.
Rico: [00:01:08] I’ll do that. So let’s get that out of the way before we get into our guest today. So we are at Atlanta Tech Park in the City of Peachtree Corners, and it’s actually an accelerator that houses about 90 plus companies. It has a far reach through the Southeast because of the venture capital work it does as well. And because of the executive Robin Bienfait, who found this location and this place when she was an executive with Samsung, back there and few other companies. So, we’re glad to be here. We’re glad there are spots that allow us to use the podcast room. This place is located on Curiosity Labs at Peachtree Corners, which is about a one and a half mile. It’s an autonomous vehicle track that anyone could come to. It’s a living lab essentially. So Autonomous vehicles. Internet of everything. People walking, people driving, everything’s live. There’s no make belief here, and you can bring your company, small or large, larger startup or established company and actually test things on this lab, on this one and a half mile track, and the backbone of this, which is enabled by 5G Sprint, 5G technology. Everyone’s talking about 5G. You can’t do autonomous vehicles without 5G. You can’t do the internet of everything without that. But you’ve got to bring the internet to it though, right? And so you still got to use cable and fiber to be able to do that. And our lead sponsor is Hargray Fiber. And they’re the backbone of Curiosity Labs. They actually provide the fiber for this to be able to work there. This one and a half mile track.
Karl: [00:02:41] It’s incredible the technology that is already being deployed right here in Peachtree Corners to enable smart city application. Everything from E-scooters where you can get here on the scooter that driverless shuttles, both, both the backbone that’s being built and then the Sprint 5G network is enabling that to, a lot of companies are coming into this area too, to explore the technologies.
Rico: [00:03:06] Tremendous map, almost like, I mean better than planted up in Michigan, which is, we got the place to be. So if you want to find out about Atlanta Tech Park, it’s AtlantaTechPark.com. HargrayFiber.com for if you’re a small business or an enterprise size business and you’re looking for fiber and enterprise solutions.
Karl: [00:03:29] Well, today we have a special episode of Capitalist Sage where, one of the things we like to do is share, the different types of leaders and people. Thought leaders in the
community at the top, contributing to the success of our community, whether it’s through business, whether it’s through government, whether it’s through citizenship and private individuals. And today it’s my pleasure to welcome Carolyn Bourdeaux, running for the US Senate seat here.
Carolyn: [00:03:57] Congress.
Karl: [00:03:58] Congress, seventh congressional district here in Georgia. Hi, how are you doing today?
Carolyn: [00:04:04] I’m doing great. Thank you all for having me.
Rico: [00:04:06] Sure. It’s pleasure. Actually, the second time. Second for us. Yes. When you ran back in 2018.
Carolyn: [00:04:12] 18 yeah. I’m back to finish the job.
Karl: [00:04:14] Oh, fabulous. So one of the things we wanted to start off with, just kind of reintroduce you to folks that may or may not know who you are and, and kind of learn a little bit, why are you jumping into this and serving your country by running for Congress?
Carolyn: [00:04:30] Right. So a little bit of my background. I live in Swaney. I have a, my husband and I, we have an eight year old son who’s enrolled in public schools here. My day job is I teach at the Andrew Young School of policy studies at Georgia State. I teach public policy and public finance and have spent a lot of my life working in various roles in public service. I worked for several members of Congress for US Senator. I was director of the Senate budget and evaluation office here in Georgia. I founded the center for state and local finance and so have been in public life and in public service in many ways for a long time. I got into this race back in July of 2017 and was motivated by several things. But one of the big ones was health care. And what’s happened with healthcare reform in this country. And, my parents passed away, two years ago after my father, after a really prolonged illness. And, you know, all of their discretionary income was eaten up, paying for healthcare costs. And so watching the skyrocketing prices of prescription drugs, the extortionary rates that many of us pay for health insurance in this community. We have 110,000 people without health insurance. And so that was a big driver watching the destruction of the affordable care act and just sort of the many, many issues that many of us face in healthcare.
Rico: [00:05:48] That was a big issue at the time. Still is actually.
Karl: [00:05:52] It’s very topical because, you know, as you hear more about other countries battling health concerns and so on. What are some of the things you’ve seen in other countries that might help us look at healthcare and how we do it here differently?
Carolyn: [00:06:11] So I’ll start with healthcare generally. And, you know, most other countries have some form of universal healthcare and they have different ways that they’re trying to get there. They use different strategies. The one I talk about a lot is, you know, going back, standing the Affordable Care act back up. Actually implementing that legislation. A lot of pieces of that were never implemented, including the expansion of Medicaid here in Georgia. By not expanding Medicaid in Georgia, the state basically returns to the federal government between $2.2 and $3 billion a year.
Rico: [00:06:46] That’s voluntary.
Carolyn: [00:06:48] It is voluntary, yes. So they volunteer $2 billion a year at least, you know, as much as $3 billion now. And that means that around 500,000 people in the state don’t have health insurance. And that’s a lot of people to hang out to dry. I also am someone who thinks we need a public option on the exchange. We still, that won’t cover everybody. And we need a low cost alternative for small businesses and for individuals to opt into as well.
Rico: [00:07:18] How do you feel about everything that’s going on in, there’s podcasts galore now and shows about Coronavirus, the Novel Virus, Depen Damick according to see. Well, who will probably happen? It is expanding. You could get the test, maybe if you’re lucky and someone’s gonna pay for it, but if you want to get the test, I mean, there’s so many questions about who’s going to actually pay for it and how are you going to take care of hospital bills, if you’re actually affected that late and you have to go to the hospital, what’s your thoughts on that?
Carolyn: [00:07:55] So we just saw a story in Florida where a person thought they had, you know, some kind of Coronavirus. They went to the hospital and then were immediately slapped with a $2,000 bill for it. I think one of the things about Coronavirus is it really or the Covid-19 is it really shines a bright light on some really serious problems in this country. And one of them is that we have hundreds of thousands of people. We have millions of people in this state, over a million people without health insurance. And, you know, even if you’re not worried about them, you might be worried about yourself because it would be really helpful if they feel sick, if they can see a doctor. And so, I think it is. You know, we face a situation where we may be in real trouble because we still, after years of arguing about this, still do not provide health care and access to a doctor for many, many people in our community.
Rico: [00:08:53] For the people that lead it, they can’t afford it. Then I’m not going to go because they can.
Carolyn: [00:09:00] Exactly. Yeah. They are much less likely to go. And I think, you know, we talk about the response to Coronavirus and people are like, well, you know, don’t touch your face, or, be sure to wash your hands. And that’s right. I mean, and that’s good. That’s important. But we also have to recognize that the response also needs to address the gaping holes in our, I don’t want to say safety net because we think of that as being associated with poor people, but
we all need a safety net at different times. Another huge issue is paid family medical leave. We have lots of people in our community, who live paycheck to paycheck. What are they going to do if they are quarantined? We have lots of people who don’t have any kind of paid family medical leave and they need, you know, that, that money, what are they gonna do? And so when we talk about how we respond to the pandemic, we need to think not just about sort of those basic health care, washing your hands, those kinds of things, but also how as a society do we respect.
Rico: [00:10:04] Well, their economic impact.
Karl: [00:10:06] Yeah. If you do some, if you think about it, some simple math, if people start getting sick. They’re going to flood emergency rooms and the cost of service saying that many people, it’s gonna. It’s gonna really be huge.
Rico: [00:10:22] Not just the cost, but there won’t be enough beds, enough ventilators, enough equipment, enough safety equipment for the healthcare workers. Can you imagine? Yeah. Some people showing up.
Karl: [00:10:34] So there’s going to be an economic impact. The question is, you know, can you plan ahead and spend the money wisely so that people could, can go earlier before it requires an emergency room, get treatment.
Carolyn: [00:10:51] I think it’s, you know, it’s a start and we’re going to have to take this one step at a time. But there are many tiers to this issue, right? One is sort of the, you know, how do we deal with this as a society? There’s another, yes, how is our healthcare network going to deal with it? And obviously we really have to try to protect our healthcare workers. And we saw thousands and thousands of them in China get sick from the Covid-19. And, we’re going to have to think about that and do we have what they need to be supported. And one thing I see when a lot of folks are talking about, you know, it’s a small percentage of people who die from this or need hospitalization. Our problem is that even a small percentage of a large number can quickly overwhelm our hospitals. And one of the reasons we quarantine and kind of shut things down is not, because you know, it’s gonna wipe out and kill lots of people. It’s just that we have to stop that overwhelming of our healthcare system and try to manage, you know, how, the diseases unfolding. And so, you know, I know they’re good people thinking about this. I just hope, you know, that they have a voice in this process and are able to help us manage through.
Karl: [00:12:02] So I’m always curious about the impact for small business owners. So, I saw a statistic 44% or so of people are employed by small business to 99.7% of all businesses happen to be small businesses and native, they don’t, may not have the ability to extend, large company healthcare benefits that people get to enjoy. What are some of the strategies that business owners at least have available to them, and what can they do to get their voice heard, to help drive change so that they can, they can offer their employees better options.
Carolyn: [00:12:39] Well, again, there’s sort of the immediate crisis issue, right? And then there’s the bigger picture issue. And you know, for me, ensuring that we have, you know, some form of universal healthcare coverage is a small business issue, right? And we need to do it to protect our small businesses so that they are not being crushed by the burden of health insurance and healthcare coverage, and that they can provide that for their employees. So, you know, one of the many reasons I really advocate for that is because I hear from small businesses all the time and how they really struggle to get insurance for themselves and for their employees. The immediate crisis is you know, I think folks need to start advocating with the state government and with the federal government, to, you know, get some real solutions coming down the pipe. Some real ideas for what is going to happen and how we’re going to manage through this if this happens and how we’re going to protect small businesses. I think that is an issue and I don’t think it’s really been addressed.
Karl: [00:13:43] Yeah. And I hear it often when I talk to small business owners that they are doing what they need to do to survive first. And they’re, they’re one catastrophe or something away from really losing their business very often. I get asked a little bit, so as we see problems like this and healthcare is a big one, there’s a lot of others like that. What are ways that the two parties can work together to come to a solution? There seems to be a blockage of that, that used to exist many years ago. But it’s getting more polarized and we’re not seeing people come together. Have you seen hope that that can be improved?
Carolyn: [00:14:30] I, you know, I wish I could say yes, but it’s a tough situation we’re in. I have worked with Republicans, you know, in the past when I worked in Congress for, I worked for a Democratic Senator, Ron Wyden. Every single piece of legislation I worked on had Republican co-sponsors. I think that coming together is very, very important. But I think our first step is we need to agree that everybody needs health insurance. And have some basic fundamental agreement on those issues and the electorate needs to send that message, did that something they want. And then there are lots of ways to solve that problem, I think in ways that, you know, Republicans might agree with. Actually the affordable care act, right, was originally introduced in Massachusetts by Mitt Romney. It was a Republican idea. It was a bipartisan idea and we need to go back to that. A time when we can have that kind of conversation.
Rico: [00:15:30] That was a bit of a moderate, moderate Republican idea, but they disowned later though, right? So I don’t know if they’ll ever go back to that. At least this set of Republicans.
Carolyn: [00:15:41] It’s very unfortunate. It was a market based idea. If we’re trying to address, you know, get us to universal health coverage.
Rico: [00:15:49] How do you find them? For example, right now, Warren, Senator Warren decided to bow out at this point today made sense. I mean, she said no path to go, so we have to. I mean the third one, close, but she’s like 2% so there’s really two candidates, right? Two different plans. All, it’s like almost all or nothing. So where did we go from this, if, if between the
two of them? Between Biden and Sanders. I mean, I feel the burn, but I don’t know if I can go all the way there. But how do you feel about that?
Carolyn: [00:16:23] You know, when I talk to people in the district and I’ve spent a lot of time talking to people about this issue, we start with where we want to go. And I think it’s the same issue as we try to, you know, bring, you know, Republicans along and have a bigger coalition around it. Everybody wants affordable quality healthcare. We all want that. We all need that. We need that for our families, for our businesses, for our community. How we get there, we can come up with different ways to get there. You know, again, I think we already have a law on the books. That’s the most straightforward way. I do believe in fiscal responsibility and, you know, the public option has been shown to save money. And you know, I think we can come up with ways to get there. Whether it is, you know, a Sander’s way of buying weight, we all have to focus on the goal of where we want to go and then work our way through how we’re going to get there.
Karl: [00:17:14] Very often you’ll see, you know, different strategies play out, and public policy. How do you get grassroots involvement on an issue like this? How do you mobilize people to, to really get out there and like, what specifically can people do to whether their representative is Republican or Democrat get done to look at an issue in a bipartisan way?
Carolyn: [00:17:42] Yeah. I’m a big believer in education and having dialogue with folks. The most difficult policy issue I ever addressed was, helping the state balance the budget during the Great Recession. And it was a really tough time. George’s revenues dropped by 20%. And what I did and many other policymakers did was we did public forum after public for after public forum. Showing what was happening with the state revenues, showing how we’re going to try to address this issue. And I think we need to have something similar on healthcare, where we are just out there talking to folks. And I, you know, as part of the campaign, I do hundreds of community meetings and, you know, and we talk about these kinds of issues. And I think that’s very, very important for, you know, getting people, having a chance to kind of hash out those ideas in a community.
Rico: [00:18:37] Well, let’s see. We’ve got technology. You know, we talked about business a lot on this podcast, but recently Google was found to have been working with a healthcare provider that does the back office work that you all, so they’ve been accumulating data and not just generic data, but names and everything like that. It’s coming to the forefront now. Google and Facebook, I mean, they’re all in there in the mix. Apple’s doing stuff, but Google is the biggest gorilla in the room, if you will. How do you want to deal with technology where on the one hand, something like that can actually help during a crash, like an epidemic? Or can help bring down costs, but you have to share that. Oh, they got rid of the privacy limit. The privacy in this, it’s very shaky. How do you handle that?
Carolyn: [00:19:28] It’s particularly an interesting question for me because as somebody who does research around public policy, I see the enormous power of data and how it can really help
us fine tune public policies to have a much more significant impact. So for instance, Georgia state, uses analytics to try to target students who might be more likely to drop out of school and then intervene early before they run into problems. And they’ve been enormously successful with this. They’ve been really very successful driving up their graduation rates. So I see, I see both sides of it. On the other hand. I’m a pretty passionate advocate for privacy and, you know, it’s just a personal thing. I don’t want everybody knowing every click I made and every location I have been. And I would imagine most of us don’t. And, you have these, you know, very large companies. Now you have maybe the government as well, just collecting tremendous amounts of data on us. So I am interested in looking at ways where we do put some brackets around this, where, you, you see Europe and California now have passed legislation, legislation laws. To, if, if you do collect data, it really does have to be anonymous. There have to be a lot of protections around it. As an individual you need to know, so what data is being collected and you’re allowed to inquire and find out about it. And that’s very important. And as a citizen, you’re also allowed to say, I want you to get rid of all the data that would identify me. And so I think, you know, legislation around that is, is calming. And you know, we do need to find, you know, think about how we’re leveraging its power, but at the same time, protecting privacy so you’re not able to identify individuals and really drill down in a way that can be very damaging to someone should information, you know, get out.
Rico: [00:21:21] Okay. I mean, you look at China, we looked away, they left one province in a country like that can’t do that because there’s no privacy. Because the privacy, they can lock it down and just stop in there. Supposedly, if we can believe there, their rates of infection, it’s way less now than it was four weeks ago.
Karl: [00:21:40] I’m curious if, like if I get asked a little bit about education, you, you work a lot with, students and folks that are going for, I see now the emphasis on education. Kind of getting deemphasized in a lot of circles. There was a time where we led with EDU educating everyone, free education. It was, maybe a national security issue as well as a way for economic advancement. And now, there’s a lot of people there. They’re paying for colleges getting expensive, and you’ve got some candidates that are, you know, everyone should be able to go to college for free. And, and most jobs are now requiring that. How do we balance or rebalance our focus around educating our young?
Carolyn: [00:22:30] So this is a district where we care a lot about education. You know this is, the seventh district is about families and children and raising our children and giving them access to the American dream and the opportunity. And I would venture to say that most all of us agree that one of the keys to that is having a really good education. And, you know, I do think we have taken our eye off the ball there. And, when I left Georgia state, one of the things I was working on, was looking at currently about 40% of young people, in Georgia get some sort of higher education, whether it’s through our technical schools or through colleges and universities. To compete with countries like Korea, Canada, and Japan, we need 60% to get through. That’s a big shift. I think I calculate the back of the envelope. It would mean investing around a billion more in our public universities in Georgia to get to that. So we spend, I think around $2 billion in
state funds on our universities, so that’s an enormous jump and investment that we would need. We need to start thinking about that. I generally am not a free person, but I am an affordable person. When I graduated from college, I had a tremendous amount of student debt. It is a big part of my story. And so I’m deeply sympathetic to young people now with that ball and chain around their ankle. And so it needs to be within reach of every student who wants to go to get a higher education. They should not see cost as a barrier.
Karl: [00:24:11] That’s one of the things now, I feel there’s a generation from 2005 to probably 2015 that went to college or in the economic crisis when they came out, they were probably underemployed because of the economy. And I feel they were at least five years behind where previous generations or peers were. And I don’t know if they ever caught up or at least they haven’t caught up yet. They might’ve already wanted economically. Where they’re getting married at 27 to 33 and buying the first house. They’re delaying starting a family by five, six years because they’re still paying off student debt and those types of things. What can we do? you know, for that group that’s now getting older and what do we do to prevent that if that were to happen again? So, so many folks don’t get left behind.
Carolyn: [00:25:10] Yeah, so we have, you know, one, we just, we have not made the baseline investments, in programs that are used to reduce the cost of higher education. I went to school on Pell grants and I don’t think we’ve increased the Pell grants in almost a decade instead of what that covers. We have disinvested in our public universities. In 2007 or so, around 75% of the revenues for our public university, 75% tax dollars came from our investment, 25% came from tuition. Now it is below 50% comes from sort of the state, you know, guarantee or the state input. And, you know, over 50% comes from tuition. And we’ve seen that in dramatic jumps in the tuition. So one of the big things we need to do also is just reinvest in those public universities so that they are affordable. You don’t go to them and you have, you know, some people have hundreds of thousands, but a lot of, you know, $20-$30,000 in debt when we leave. So those are certainly some things we can do to try to address that. I’m interested in some of the loan forgiveness as well. I think, you know, there are a lot of folks out there who have a lot of earning potential, right? And they, it’s not going to be a big issue, but, you know, for lower income folks, people who choose service jobs, people who choose jobs that are, you know, in the community that might not make as much, you know. Pegging their student loan repayments to a smaller percentage of their income is certainly something we can do. Forgiveness, you know, for people who go into that.
Rico: [00:26:49] Really what’s going on now, right. Because the education department now have the program of forgiveness for a certain set of people that applied and mostly that that’s not happening.
Carolyn: [00:26:59] They, they’ve undone it. Yeah, yeah. Yes, absolutely. I mean, I’m running, I deeply disagree with the priorities, right. That we’re setting right now.
Karl: [00:27:08] Even Frost, they go into a field like teaching, they’re leaving because the salaries they’re making, they can’t live. And anyone here could tell you. I remember a teacher that probably changed the course of your life because of the way they were able to impact you.
Rico: [00:27:24] They even spend their own money. I mean, most of them do buy stuff for the classroom.
Carolyn: [00:27:28] I tell them the most important person in my life right now is not some wall street banker. It’s not. It is my son’s second grade teacher and we need to treat her and pay her, and I support her accordingly.
Rico: [00:27:45] Do you think I’m saying this, been talking to her a little bit more? I think not a free, again, free, but everything could be free I guess, but a free childcare and talking about providing that childcare. And also making a creek in kindergarten. You know, putting an investment in the lower grains to hopefully bring, because it is a big difference, I think for a kid that’s young that doesn’t get 12 well, it doesn’t have the right exposure. I mean, what do you think?
Carolyn: [00:28:16] I do support moving towards universal Pre-K. And making that available. Not, not mandatory, but that any, anybody who wants to, does have access. Just like we have kindergarten, move that down a grade. And that’s important. But we need affordable childcare too. There are lots of women, you know, we want people to work. If you want people to work, then you need to support them as they do work. And you know, having quality childcare is also extremely important.
Karl: [00:28:46] You’re running as a Democrat. And I’m curious, are there things that you see the Republican party doing well in policy, something where they think you think they’re on the right path and they might be leading the way in any particular area of policy currently.
Carolyn: [00:29:05] I think there’s a lot of good bi-partisan work, around the VA and around veterans issues. That’s something where we have a situation that is, is quite bad in the VA. I talked to lots of veterans who have had to wait years. I had a friend whose brother killed himself, as he came back and didn’t get the mental health treatment that he needed. And I see people in both parties, you know, working together to address those issues. And those are very important ones and I’m glad to see them move forward on a bipartisan basis.
Karl: [00:29:37] I wonder like, issues like immigration there, there’s a lot of polarizing opinions about it. But you do hear some talk of, of finding ways to bring more people, to be naturalized citizens or to become citizens within the country. I hear it on both sides. Republicans talk about it. They seem to get stuck and how, and when, and the pace to do it. But our approach to immigration has drastically shifted in 30 years, where I grew up in New York and there was the Statue of Liberty. And, and, and I remember it on school trips. It was a premiere, poor, and, and,
and, and arms opening. And, and there’s been a shift, and I don’t know if it’s a shift in the people, is it, or is it a shift in the policy?
Carolyn: [00:30:28] Oh, well, I mean, I think Trump clearly ran on a huge anti-immigrant platform and, the seventh congressional district, 25% of the people in this district were born outside of this country. And it is the policies coming out of Washington now around immigration just strike at the heart of this district. And it is interesting, you know, the business community needs immigrants. And, we have always benefited from bringing the best and the brightest from all over the world, hard workers from all over the world, coming to our country and, making a life for themselves and their families. And, you know, we have rolled that back and I was interested to see Mick Mulvaney out there the other day, you know, I guess he slipped up and said that, you know, wait a minute. These really do have a big economic impact. If you all will recall back in 2007, Georgia passed a huge anti-immigrant piece of legislation and it’s kind of evaporated. And what they found was right away, after they passed it, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars of crops rotted in the fields in South Georgia. And, you know. So it’s this weird dichotomy. They’re like, we don’t want immigrants, but then, you know, once that kind of fewer passes, Oh wait, we really do need them.
Rico: [00:31:51] How would they not realize that?
Carolyn: [00:31:52] Right. I don’t know, but you know, and then they’ve legislation kind of, you know, it was found to be unconstitutional or illegal in various ways and kind of vanished. You know, we’re going to see that same thing cycle again. And one of the problems we have is that our immigration laws do not match the economic realities on the ground, and we need to have that match. I mean, the other thing about immigration is that, you know, we are now, you know, we are a country that deeply believes in human rights and respect for human dignity and to see what’s happening at the border, with these camps and, you know, taking children away from their parents. You know, everybody’s a parent just feels in their guts, you know, to how wrong that is. And we have just lost our moral bearings now around immigration. And that fundamentally has to be reestablished. I was just in a Hispanic church a few weekends ago and sat down with a man whose brother was here. He ran a landscaping business, you know, in our community right here. And his, wife, for some reason ended up being undocumented, was deported by Ice back to Honduras. And, he followed her back and was shortly thereafter killed. His hands were chopped off, his head was chopped off and his wife was raped. And we’re sending people back to their countries and they’re being killed. And, that’s really, really wrong. And we have to address that. Both the moral, the human rights issues, as well as the economic ones in our immigration policy.
Karl: [00:33:28] There’s a lot that’s going on here in Metro Atlanta with immigrants. If you go to areas like Clarkston and others where you’re seeing, I’d call it a rebirth. The immigrant communities building businesses there, there’s a program there called Start Me, with Emory where they’re partnering with the universities and friends of refugees and nonprofit organizations in the community to help new Americans and refugees build businesses here in
the community. And, and it’s amazing when you see folks that have the ability. And all they might need is some help and guidance on navigating. There might be some language skills that they’re, they need some help with, but they’re putting out good business. Catering businesses and restaurants and clothing businesses and so on because they want to provide, they want to create jobs within the community and make sure the money stays within the community. So you know, if folks want to get a sense of how immigrants are thriving, you know, there’s areas right here in Metro Atlanta that they can go and experience that if they, if they want to kind of just meet someone, have lunch, have coffee, and it changes your perception.
Carolyn: [00:34:40] It’s not a zero sum game, right? They are creating business and opportunity and that in turn is lifting everybody up. And I think that’s another important point about immigrants coming into our community. You know, they bring a tremendous amount of economic growth and vibrancy to our community.
Rico: [00:34:59] You know, a few minutes left. And then we gotta let Caroline go. But I want to get, if you don’t mind, just a couple of questions in about politics. That’s just not issues. But, so we have Sanders and we have, do you have a choice? As far as you know, down there, they’ve been talking about Sanders and down the ticket and how that may affect other candidates. You have six, I think, running as the democratic primary in the seven candidates in the Republican. So they’re having a free for all on the other side, but you’ve raised the most money, you feel good about winning.
Carolyn: [00:35:44] I do. Yeah. I come in with, you know, I came within 433 votes last time. I’m flipping the seed. It was the closest race in the country. And, you know, I’m starting at, you know, tremendous momentum coming out of that. I think a lot of folks. Saw what we accomplished in 2018 and saw it as a victory. I mean, we closed a 20 percentage point gap in this area, to get to that point. The previous Democrat came in at 40%. and so, you know, that enthusiasm and momentum and excitement, you know, it is reflected in my fundraising numbers, right? Those are not. But also any endorsements. I just picked up Hakeem Jeffries, a Congressman who came, Jeffery’s endorsement. He is a rising star in the house leadership, democratic house leadership. I have John Lewis, Andrew Young, Hank Johnson, Sam, you know, a host of local folks. And it’s just, you know, we are coming back to finish what we started last time.
Rico: [00:36:43] How do you feel about Kelly Laughlin?
Carolyn: [00:36:46] Oh, bless her. Welcome to politics.
Rico: [00:36:57] I appreciate you coming down with us. Carolyn: [00:36:58] Absolutely.
Karl: [00:36:59] Just getting to talk to folks and get to hear more about what you think about policies, and issues that are affecting people every day, you know. Thank you very much for coming and joining us today.
Carolyn: [00:37:15] It’s a real pleasure to talk with you guys.
Karl: [00:37:18] Well, we want to thank everybody for listening to the Capitalist Sage Podcast, today. I’m Karl Barham with Transworld Business Advisors. You, we help business folks, figure out exit strategies for businesses. Rico, what do you have coming up?
Rico: [00:37:34] Sure. So Peachtree Corners Magazine, if you go to LivingInPeachtreeCorners.com, you can find out. Well about what, what’s going on in the city. But the next, this one is about youth sports, doing good with homegrown nonprofits. And a few other stories that were chock-full stuff. So that’ll be coming out in April / May issue. So April 10th, right after spring break downs.
Karl: [00:37:58] And I’m going to suspect in the next few weeks and months, there’s going to be lots of activity here in Atlanta Tech Park, our sponsor, and where we broadcast this podcast from, part of the City of Peachtree Corners, Georgia. We want to bring, be a place where business people can come together, interact with people in politics, in the community, to help make what the city’s really all about. So, I want to thank Atlanta Tech Park and invite anybody to come out here and take a look whenever they have a chance. And for that, that’s the end of this week’s podcast at the Capitalist Sage. Thank you everybody for listening. Take care.
Rico: [00:38:38] Thank you.
Choosing, planning and Growing a Business, with Barry Adams, owner of Peachtree Awnings
What to consider when starting a business. How to choose the business for you. How to consider when planning your first three years of business. In this episode of the Capitalist Sage Podcast, Karl Barham and Rico Figliolini talk with Barry Adams, founder, and owner of Peachtree Awnings and Tennessee Awnings about his experience in the business world. Barry shares some insightful tips and tricks to help any small or large business owner through their journey through entrepreneurship.
Where to find the topic in the show – Timestamp:
[00:00:30] – Intro
[00:01:58] – About Barry and Peachtree Awnings
[00:07:36] – Learning from Experience
[00:10:20] – Making Business Decisions
[00:12:26] – Impact of a Formal Education
[00:14:59] – Business Impact of COVID
[00:17:31] – How to Make Your Business Thrive
[00:23:08] – Making a Business Plan
[00:25:31] – Learning New Things
[00:30:19] – Looking to the Future
[00:32:44] – Innovations
[00:34:17] – Growing Through People
[00:36:55] – Helping the Community
[00:41:23] – Closing
Karl: [00:00:30] Welcome to the Capitalist Sage Podcast. We’re here to bring you advice and
tips from seasoned pros and experts to help you improve your business. I’m Karl Barham with
Transworld Business Advisors and my co-host is Rico Figliolini with Mighty Rockets Digital
Marketing and the publisher of the Peachtree Corners magazine. Hey Rico, how’re you doing
Rico: [00:00:49] Hey Karl. Pretty good, beautiful day. Thank God the power’s on versus last
week. Before we get into the show, let me introduce our lead sponsor Hargray Fiber. They’re a
great Southeast company that works in fiber optics and IT management working to make you a
business sound and be able to communicate with the rest of the world. Whether it’s, you’re at
home teleworking employees or in office, cause COVID is still going on, right? So many different
people are working it differently. And here in Peachtree Corners, they’re very involved. They’re
involved with Curiosity Lab that Peachtree Corners. They’re involved with the city. They’re really
in tune with the community and that’s how they are with every community they’re in. So unlike
the cable guy, these guys are here right in the community that they’re working in. If you need
them, they’re there for you. So any business, whether you’re small or enterprise size, they can
work the systems for you, provide the office tools that you can work with as well. So visit them at
HargrayFiber.com and find out a little bit more about our lead sponsor. We’re thankful for them.
Karl: [00:01:58] Sounds good. Well, thank you Rico for introducing our sponsor. Today’s guest is
Barry Adams, CEO, and founder of Peachtree Awnings. Local, small business that’s located
here in Gwinnett County and one of the business leaders in the community that we’re glad to
have as a guest with us today. Hey Barry, how are you doing?
Barry: [00:02:20] Great Karl. It’s good to be here.
Karl: [00:02:23] Good. Why don’t you introduce yourself a little bit? Tell a little bit about yourself
and what you do.
Barry: [00:02:29] Yeah. I’m Barry Adams the owner of Peachtree Awnings and Canopies I own
the local shop and also Tennessee Awnings up in Nashville service and middle Tennessee up
in the Nashville area. So we are a manufacturer of custom commercial and residential awnings
of all shapes and sizes. We serve the local Atlanta area, but we go outside of Atlanta too. So
we’ve got a pretty good reach. And we’ve been in business for 15 years. I started the company
in 2005. And then acquired an existing awning company in Nashville in 2012. So I’ve had that
shop up there in Nashville for eight years now, and 15 years here in Atlanta. So it’s been a labor
of love. I can tell you that any small business owner, I think, would say the same thing is that,
you know, you do it and you do it because you really are passionate about your product or your
service and whatever you do. You gotta dig in everyday in kind of the same way.
Karl: [00:03:40] So I’m curious, did you grow up in a small business family? What was, what did
you do before?
Barry: [00:03:46] Well, that’s great question, Karl. Actually, my grandfather had the
entrepreneurial spirit because I think he had four or five businesses by the time he was in his
mid forties. A couple of restaurants to his name, ended up having a landfill. And this is all in the
Southern California area. And so he definitely had the entrepreneurial spirit. You know, my
mother’s side, my grandfather on my mother’s side owned a grocery store in the Southern part
of Illinois. And so he was a, both a farmer and a grocer. And so I think I come by it naturally, the
Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. So it definitely was in my genes, I think, to be a small
Karl: [00:04:33] So when you were deciding to start off, what were you considering and how did
you come to that decision? What were some of the factors that you considered?
Barry: [00:04:40] Yeah, I was, it was 2005 and I was in my MBA program, executive MBA
program at Kennesaw state and I knew I wanted to start a business and wasn’t sure exactly
what I wanted to do. I was working with a business consultant that was pointing me in different
directions. I ended up buying, actually buying a franchise business. I got close with several
businesses. I looked at sign businesses. I really tried to give myself a lot of green space, a lot of
greenfields to look at a lot of different businesses. I looked at non-invasive skin procedures. I
looked at a lot of different things and got very close with sign businesses, but I wanted
something a little bit more differentiated. And so they said, how about awnings? And I had never
thought about awnings, never had really even looked at awnings. But I’m an engineer by
education. And so the more I looked at it, I said, I think I can, I think I could do this because you
design the product that you end up building and installing. And so it fit my skillset particularly
well. And so there in January of 2005, we kind of set sail having never built an awning or never
installed an awning. I bought into a franchise business and they educated me about how to build
awnings and how to install awnings. We climbed that learning curve very, very, very fast. So it
was really a challenging time, that first three years of being in business. Of course, the
recession started at like two double ’09. So shortly after that it was, you know, it was a little bit of
Rico: [00:06:27] Well, I’ve got to give a little testimonial shout out to Barry because I must have
been one of the first of the half dozen of regional clients that Barry had. And it was beautiful. I
think it was a summer. It was definitely a summer day. And you put in the awning that I still have
15 years later. Still working, retractable working, and I’m not a maintenance type of guy. So the
cables might be a little rusted and stuff and the fabric might be a little bit dull, but it’s working
fine 15 years later.
Barry: [00:07:04] I can’t tell you how much we appreciate that too Rico, because at that stage in
our career, we, you know, in our business development, I didn’t have any orders and I didn’t
have any customers. So you were, you know, every time I came back to the shop and I had an
order, you know, it was time for celebration really. Because we didn’t, we did not have any
customers at that time. And every time we added one to our, you know, to our stable of
customers, we were really excited. So great times. Thanks for that.
Karl: [00:07:36] So I’m curious about that first year. Is there anything that you’ve learned that if
you wish you knew someone told you about in that first two to three years, about business,
about being a small business owner that you’d pass on to someone else starting on?
Barry: [00:07:54] Well, yeah, a couple of things come to mind Karl, one of the things is, I think
you can plan to be big, but think small starting out. Think small. I bought used office furniture. I
bought used trucks. People want to go, a lot of times they want to, you know, want to buy, have
the biggest, best or newest anyway, the newest and best of everything. And I would say think
small, plan to be bigger, but think to start out think small. Because you can always scale it up
from there. Based on your success or your, you know, your volume. The other thing is of
course, be a planner and I can’t emphasize that enough on the small business side. Be a
planner and always be thinking about that next step that you want to take. It doesn’t have to be
five years out there, but it definitely has to be 12 to 18 months out there. And then think about
that next step. Think about it like you’re, you know, crossing a river, a very, very turbulent river
and you have to step across those rocks very carefully as you cross from one bank to the other
bank. Now, once you start to cross the river, you can’t go back to the other bank, right? You
know, that’s not an option. So, you know, I often say it’s not about making all the right decisions.
It’s about making the decisions that you make right. Once you make a decision. Don’t worry
about whether you, well, have I made rights, make it, try to make it right. You know, and you’re
not going to make every decision 100% right. But I can tell you that if you’re making eight,
seven, eight, nine decisions out of 10 or 80 out of a hundred or 90 out of a hundred correctly,
you’re going to be in rarified air, right? You’re going to be among those small business owners
that are really, really super successful. So it’s not about making all the right decisions and don’t
agonize over. Wow, you know, once you have the information that you have and frequently it’s
incomplete, right. And we don’t have the benefit of having the whole, all the puzzle pieces in
front of us. But once you’ve got enough information to make that, make the decision and then go
about making it right.
Karl: [00:10:20] It’s actually, I can talk about decision-making even at the beginning. What would
you advise people that are struggling with making decisions. To get it right or wrong. But you
know, a lot of folks can’t even make the decision to buy that business, start that business grow,
invest, make that hiring choice. How do you get through that?
Barry: [00:10:42] Yeah, it’s that, you’re right. That is probably the toughest decision because
you’re now, you may be leaving something that’s safe and secure. You may be leaving an
income that’s a known quantity. Which I was leaving something that was very insulated and
insular and embarking on something that’s very uncertain and very unknown. And that’s a very
scary thing. You know, I think it’s important to make sure, obviously that you’re wall capitalized,
you know, that you are not embarking on something that you can’t sustain through the most
difficult period of your business tenure or your business career. And you got to make it through
that first year years. And I can tell you factually that I did take a plug nickel out of my business
the first three years that I was in business. Now that’s a very, very difficult you’re like, well, how
did you do that? Well, make sure you’re well-capitalized and that you can sustain yourself. You
can get real skinny, you know, for a period of time, but you’ve got, you still have to put food on
your table. You still have to pay your mortgage. And so you have to from a personal standpoint,
make sure that you can sustain yourself through those first three years. And plan, really, almost
to the effect that you’re not maybe not going to take an income for that first three years. What
does that look like? Can you sustain yourself through that first three years without taking any
money out of your businesses? There’s a likelihood that you’re going to have to, anything that
you make, you’re going to have to plow back into the business, particularly in that first three year
period of time.
Karl: [00:12:26] That makes a lot of sense. And that’s good advice for folks. You mentioned that
you got an MBA, what effect and impact do you think that that had? A lot of small business
owners don’t get that formal business education. Do you think that’s impacted how you
approach your business?
Barry: [00:12:45] Well, first of all, you know getting my executive MBA at Kennesaw was
definitely a catalyst to me starting my business. I think the Genesis of me starting my business
began as I embarked on that program. And so it was definitely a catalyst for me. I think you
know, I pull some parts or pieces of my MBA program every day, sometimes unknowingly. You
know, but I draw on that experience. You know, I think that the best life experiences, combine
that kind of formal education that you got in the classroom and you can go back as far as you
want, with the practical knowledge that you gained when you’re in the field or when you’re
practicing. And that goes for everything from, the first job that you may have ever had in a fast
food restaurant or cutting lawns. And so you learned something when you were in the
classroom, but that’s formal education without practical experience is almost useless, right? It’s
very antiseptic. It’s very institutional. And so you’ve got to combine the formalized, the education
and instruction that you get with practical knowledge. If you only have practical knowledge, then
it had no frame, right? It had no real design to it and it had no organization. It didn’t step you
through things sequentially. So I always like to think that my best, you know, my best
experience comes from the formalized education that I got and then the practical things that I’m
learning out in the field or through the school of hard knocks.
Karl: [00:14:33] I agree. I notice that a lot of folks, and I meet different types of business owners,
the ones that have formal education. What I notice is they’ve got, they avoid some basic mistake
things that helps kind of guide them. But also they also feel more confident and have a handle
on unknowns being thrown at them. So take 2020.
Barry: [00:14:57] Right. You know, you’re right.
Karl: [00:14:59] You’re running the business, things are going good. And then, how soon did you
know something was happening related to coronavirus and so on. And when did you start
thinking about the possible impact on your business?
Barry: [00:15:13] Well, I think everybody, you know, kind of woke up in mid March and said, my
gosh, what’s, you know, what’s happening? What’s happening here? And it was very uncertain.
We wanted to protect our associate base. We want to protect our families. And then early on, I
guess I would say, you know, in the first couple of weeks in April, about 30 days after we’d
gotten into the Corona or pandemic environment that we. You know, I pulled the audience, I
pulled my associates and I found that they really wanted to work. I mean, of course they really
wanted to work because they knew that their livelihood and income was at risk if we were to
stop, you know, stop work for any reason. We were fortunate that we had projects, orders to fill.
And so we had work that needed to be done. And so I can’t say it was business as usual, but
the word that I kind of continue to use with my team and with the people that I talk to is balance,
you know. I try not to be fearful of the current environment in that we still have a job to do, and
we try to press forward. But neither can we be cavalier about the threats and the things that are
happening out in the marketplace. And so we have to have our head up all the time. Just like
you’re on a ball field, you have to have your head up and on a swivel sometimes to make sure
you’re not going to get hit broadside from somewhere. But nor can you be redisant or you can’t
be fearful or tentative. And so we’ve tried to strike that balance. We’ve tried to protect our
associate base when we go out to projects, certainly for sure residential projects. You know, we
mask up and we go, when we’re in people’s homes or around people’s homes, we make sure
that we’re taking the proper precautions. It’s not business as usual. But we’re pressed forward
and it’s not easy. But I think that it’s suited my associate population that people really, really
want to work. And we’ve been able to make a lot of progress this year and that’s not been easy,
Karl: [00:17:31] We noticed a lot of, this year, at the beginning we talked a lot about a bridge
plan. And it was just simply when this hit a lot of businesses. What do you do to get through this
and empower through and excel? And in the bridge plan, it talked about, you know, making sure
you knew what your break even was and reducing expenses. How do we figure out ways to
pivot and increase income with your business as well as how do you communicate and stay
contact with your customers? But the last two, G and E, was around get working. Like just get
out there and start, you know, when other people are wondering what to do the strong, they’re
gonna figure out a way to do that. And hopefully it leads you to excelling. When you understood
what was happening, what were some of the things you decided to do in your business to try to
not just survive this, but actually to thrive?
Barry: [00:18:23] Well, you know, we did talk, we moved, actually moved our shop in this
environment. We moved up to Lawrenceville. We moved our shop from Norcross to the
Lawrenceville. And so we, there was an opportunity there. The SBA has been helpful. Gave us
a little bit of tailwind. I always say it’s all about the hustle. You know, it’s all about the hustle. You
know, and, I like to think when other people are at home with their feet up on the coffee table,
I’m making that last sales call of the day. And my team is making that last sales call today or
Friday when some people are knocking off at three o’clock, you know, I’m going from whistle to
whistle, you know, and I’m going to go all the way to five o’clock in the evening. And, it’s all
about work and hard work and sweat equity. And the gritty and gutty people in this world
survive. And that’s, I’m a grinder and I just don’t know any other way around that. And so, and in
this environment, I think you can just need to, you need to retrench and look for opportunities.
I’ve tried to be an opportunist and that’s a hallmark, I think of my business career is just trying to
be an opportunist. And so when other people, other businesses may be retreating, you know,
that’s a great time to forge ahead because they may be either pulling back from a marketing
standpoint or a sales standpoint. And so going forward, really charging forward or finding that
pathway is really, really important.
Karl: [00:20:04] It’s interesting. As you said that, I was suggesting to some business associates,
they had strong businesses going in, that it was a time to double down and reinvest and there
were some simple things. It might be training people. If you were shut down for a month, what
training did you never have time to do before that you could implement? Marketing. What a
better time to go talk to more customers, communicate, launch campaigns cause those
customers are out there. But when everybody was quiet, looking at charts every day, you know,
what messages were they thinking about as far as, you know, ways to have shade in backyards
and different things like that. And who’s communicating to them through that. What are some
other things you see people that have really thrived through this and are really poised for
breaking out in the future?
Barry: [00:21:00] Yeah. And you brought up some great, great things, Karl. You know, training
and education and reinvesting equipment. Of course, if I go back in my business career now,
this is not, I say this is not the first difficult economic time that I’ve encountered in the lifespan of
my business. Because as I said earlier, 2009, 10 and 11, we were in the throws of a real, you
know, real recession. And so, again, while other people were pulling back on marketing dollars,
I never cut my marketing budget, not one dime. You know, when other people were looking to
reduce head count, we never reduced. We never reduced head count. Take those people and
see where they’re going to be best utilized in your business. Be a planner, I’d make a plan.
Every single, business year I do not go into the ensuing year without a business plan. And so
this time of year it is the heart of my business planning period. And so November, December,
when I put my plan together for 2021. So I will not go into the ensuing year without a business
plan. And once I make that plan, while I do make some adjustments, some small minor
adjustments and tweak it, the plan is the plan is the plan. And I don’t very much for my plan
when I embark on a direction and I will tweak it, but I won’t make wholesale changes. I will not
slash dollars. You know, if I had set those aside, there has to be a real catastrophic event for
me to change my direction, based on my plan. And so I try to stick to the plan that I’ve created
and we’ll make some adjustments, but the plan is the plan is the plan. And I think to the extent
that you’re able to really stick to that, and that’s a discipline, by the way. It’s really, you gotta
have the discipline to stick to your plan. Especially when things get a little bit Rocky.
Rico: [00:23:08] Can I ask you Barry, what, you know, just to get into the weeds a little bit, just
the meat of it, if you will. So this way, because people hear plans and they’re not sure what does
that mean? You know, what’s involved? What’s actually in the plan, let’s say for example. So
could you give an idea of what that, you know, two or three points, what that means as what’s in
a plan for you? Is it a sales goal? Is it a dollar amount? Is it adding a truck? What’s in a plan for
Karl: [00:23:34] If somebody were to look at your plan, how would you describe that?
Barry: [00:23:39] No question. I mean, I think it starts with you know, it really does start with your
marketing and sales planning conjunction. You’re either going to, you’re going to look for
geographic extensions. You’re going to look for product extensions. So that’s going to drive your
marketing. So I’m going to advertise, or I’m going to push this product forward with my sales
team or with my marketing dollars. And then, so out of that marketing plan that comes from your
strategic goals that I want to grow in this geographic area, I want to grow in this product group, I
wanna, you know, I want to reach these customers, this and then you create a, you know, out of
that kind of marketing plan comes your sales plan, you know? And so now you’ve got, you’ve
kind of fleshed that out with your team. You know, these people are going to produce this
amount, you know, in terms of selling or sales dollars. And then rolling down from that,
obviously your expense model. And for us I say there’s not a lot of moving parts and pieces. It’s
gotten bigger. At first there was not a lot of moving parts and pieces. There’s more than there
was, but your expense model flows out of that. And so then, you know, this is not a difficult
equation, right? You have sales and you have expenses and that produces profits. You know, I
think Bill Gates said that originally, you know, it’s like, let’s not overthink this. The sales
expenses, the bottom line is profits. And that’s what we’re, you know, that’s what we’re trying to
drive. And so, but it kind of starts out of your marketing ideas and where you want to go
strategically. And then you can decide, you know, what kind of revenue, what kind of volume
you’re going to create from there and what kind of expenses you’re going to take on.
Karl: [00:25:31] I’m curious in your industry, typically I sort of look at where to market. How do
you learn what’s going on in your industry, your market, how do you know what’s going to be
things that you need to react to or things where there’s opportunities? How do you as you and
your team learn things?
Barry: [00:25:51] Well, I think you gotta be in touch with your sales team. First of all, it was to
start out with, it was just me. And so I had to be head up all the time active in my community,
active in the business community, active in my trade association, looking for changes. You
know, I really do think about it as a business owners, like a ship and I’m in the wheel house and
you know, I’m in the wheelhouse and I’m guiding the ship or the captain has gotta be
responsible to be looking out there and seeing what kind of weather conditions are changing,
you know? What’s changing and the tack of the ship and that kind of thing. And so as a
business owner, I have to have my head up and I have to be aware of industry changes, market
conditions and market changes and opportunities for us to, you know, to make hay while the
sun shines. And so, as an example, like home improvement in this COVID environment has
fared very, very well. People were home for months at a time, and they were not spending
money on vacations and going out to eat. Theater and concerts and ball games. And so they
looked for opportunities to improve their homes. And so as a result, that part of our business
has as flourished in this environment. So, as the captain, you have to be head up, looking
around, you know, active in your community. So many people, I think so many business owners,
they get stuck with their head on the desk, you know. Head up off the desk and eyes forward
and see what’s going on and being very much in contact with what is going on around me.
Karl: [00:27:45] There must have been a point in your business when you were doing
everything. And for you to start being able to work on the business and do that and keep your
head up. There was a inflection point where that sort of happened. Can you tell us what that
was like and how does someone else know when that’s happening and how to navigate that?
Barry: [00:28:05] Yeah, that’s great. That’s great Karl cause it takes me back to like 2007, eight
and nine. And I was literally on the ladder. I was on the ladder installing. You know, I think that
first year of 2005, I know I did 110, 109 or 110 jobs. And I installed all hundred nine or a
hundred and ten in that year. And I was on those first three or four years, I was on the ladder
installing the stuff that I sold, you know. I think Rico, I think I installed your awning as well. But,
you know, at some point I think it was long about probably 2008 and nine. I said, I can’t run my
business from the top of the ladder. And so, there’s that continuum, right? It starts out, operator
there’s operator on one side and there’s owner on the other side. And there’s this continuum
from operator, owner operator to owner. So many small business owners get stuck at that
operator phase. They never even, they can never even push the needle toward owner operator,
right. They just get stuck in that operator phase. And around 2008, nine was like, I can’t run my
business from the top of the ladder. And so I started to add head count. I added a sales guy, I
added an installer. And so instead of three of us, there was now five of us. And those are, you
know, those are steps that you make and you’ve got your plan. You’re planning for it though in
your business plan, you’re still like, do you know what. I think by the end of this year, I’m going
to get to five, you know, by the end of 2009. And it was at five people, you know, and I realized,
you know, with a drill in my hand, you know, and screws and hanging an awning over my head,
I was like, I can’t. It worked for the first three years that I was in business, but then about eight,
nine, 10, I was like, I need more help. And then you make those steps, but I can tell you that
that was that adding those heads was a part of my plan for that year.
Karl: [00:30:19] But that’s an important insight that it did definitely be highlight the first part that,
that strikes the rings so true. Those first three years. Let’s make no illusion right? It’s work.
You’re an operator. You’re doing all those. If you are operating a small business, that comes
with the territory of it. But then you have to have a plan to move away. It doesn’t happen
magically. Like people didn’t just drop into your lap and they changed. The best, make a plan to
scale that and start shifting through that. I’m curious, what does the future look like now that
you’ve gone this far along? How far do you look out and how do you start to figure out, you
know, what do you want to do? And what do you want it to be in five years, 10 years?
Barry: [00:31:05] Right, yeah. Right. Well, even in this environment, we moved into a brand new
30,000 square foot facility in Lawrenceville, Georgia. A lot of our product now has shifted from
fabric linings, which is what people think about when they think about awnings and canopies.
Though a lot of our work now is actually metal. We do a lot of metal architectural canopies. We
serve the general contractor trade now. A lot more of our work is B to B and not business, B to
C business to consumer, but B to B. And so, you know, we’ve migrated a good bit in the 15
years we’ve been in business, but we’re a brand new 30,000 square foot facility. We’re going to
add powder coating. I won’t get into the weeds with that industrial process, but it’s a painting
process. We have a lot of our product, metal product is powder-coated. We’re going to start a
powder coating operation, here in Atlanta anyway, into 2021. So that’s going to be a big part of
our 2021 plan is a separate business unit, Peachtree Powder Coating. It’s complimentary, it
dovetails in with Peachtree Awnings and Canopies as well as the operation that we have up in
Tennessee Awnings. So, we’re going to have a real robust plan and I’m not going to, I’m not
planning to retreat in 2021. We’re going to keep forging ahead. This will be a product extension
as opposed to the geographic, you know, organic growth that we, you know, we’ve talked about.
Karl: [00:32:44] I’m curious about technology and how is technology impacting your business
and how do you, you know, how do you incorporate some new technologies? When people
think of awnings, has there been a lot of innovation that we’re not aware of that’s happening and
is there more to come?
Barry: [00:33:01] Not a lot of, you know, our product is a very, very old tried and true product. I
mean, you know, awnings and coverage, it goes back to the time when somebody, you know,
made an umbrella or threw a bare cloth over their head to protect themselves from the
elements. And so our product has been around for a very, very long time. As I said a lot of the
changes and a lot of changes in the products and the materials that we’re using in our products.
A lot of the product, fabric is still is used, still widely used and you’ll still see that product out in
the marketplace. But a lot of it is now architectural metals. There’s been a lot of changes though
on the shop floor, things that help us become more efficient. Job costing pieces of software
there’s been a lot of software, you know, we do a lot of rendering now to help people visualize
that awning or canopy on their home or business. So we’re utilizing rendering software on the
sales side, we’re using the software on the shop floor to help us be more efficient and that’s
going to help us, I think, in the next year to a couple of years.
Karl: [00:34:17] Well, one more question. When you see most businesses grow, there’s an
element that they can’t be ignored when it comes to people. And what’s constraints growth very
often as people. How do you manage through that dynamic and grow your business with
Barry: [00:34:36] Yeah. That’s, you know, recruiting and selecting, I think is really at the heart
lifeblood of just about every business. Not just small business, but every business. And so, I’ve
tried to always make a part of my plan the people plan, the recruiting and selecting being a large
part of that. We were fortunate when we moved up to Lawrenceville now. There you go, we’re
five minutes away from Gwinnett tech. You know, Gwinnett tech is a great source of fabricators,
welders, people with technical skills and expertise. And so what did I do? First thing, you know,
within three weeks of landing up there. I was on the phone with the people in their fabrication,
welding department. And we had the first, I say student graduate, start this week. You know,
and I have another one lined up that’s gonna start in three weeks, so right before Thanksgiving.
So, recruiting and selecting, extremely important, not just at small business, but every business.
And that’s proved to be very difficult in this environment.
Karl: [00:35:47] So specifically, how do you find the right people in your organization?
Barry: [00:35:54] I always will say that the best people in our company will continue to come
from other people in our company, they’re already our company. So quite frequently, I think the
best people in our company come from referrals from associates that are already working for us.
That’s a tough sell. People are doing their jobs and they, you know, but if you could help them
for information. This young man who came to us from Gwinnett tech came from one of the guys
who works for us, who is a student at Gwinnett tech. He helped recruit this guy, helped us
create that little pipeline now. And so that’s going to be very helpful for us. I mean, you know, we
use some of the traditional methods too, like Indeed.com just to give them a plug. We use
Indeed.com and we get a lot, you know, we have a funnel. But we, I still think that the best
people in our company come from other people already in our company.
Karl: [00:36:55] So one last thing I wanted to ask you about just in the context, I know you get
involved in the community a lot. And what role as a business leader, are there things that you’re
passionate about or things that you get involved with? Just to help the community in general.
Barry: [00:37:13] Yeah, I can’t stress enough the importance of being a good corporate citizen
and pay it forward. And I think that we have responsibility as business owners to give freely to
others what’s freely given to us as a baseline. And so, I always try to approach my, I say my
philanthropic efforts, my, you know, my nonprofit efforts, with that as a backdrop. And it’s
important that you pick two or three things that your people can get behind. It doesn’t matter
whether it’s, you know, toys for tots or the Atlanta community food bank or the local chamber,
which will funnel you into a number of non-profit areas. But pick two or three and make a
difference, you know. You might say, well, I’m a small business what difference can I make. But
you can. You can make a difference and you can make a difference at a level that’s really
grassroots. Whether it’s a church or a school, one of the things that’s near and dear to my heart
is a school called the special needs school of Gwinnett. My youngest daughter, Megan has got
special needs. And so up in Lawrenceville is the special needs school of Gwinnett. And they just
built a brand new school, we’re providing coverage of their playground equipment, because a lot
of the kids that go to school there, they take medicine that’s sun sensitive and that may be, you
know, an issue for them. And so we are providing cover for their playground equipment and
that’s something that we’re doing.
Karl: [00:38:59] Well, you know, I want to say, thank you. You being part of community. And
when I see you, you’re always willing to give time and you’ll mentor in other businesses. Your
involvement in the Southwest Gwinnett chamber over the years has been, if there was one
thing, if you look at like, Southwest Gwinnett, some of the business that you think, as a
collective, businesses can do better to help the community. Is there anything collectively that
comes to mind that they could be a bigger role in the community?
Barry: [00:39:29] You know, get involved. Yeah, it doesn’t matter. I know that the large Gwinnett
chamber can be a little bit intimidating. It’s a big, that’s a big organization, you know, and I’m a
member of the Gwinnett chamber of commerce, but I’m also a member of the Southwest
Gwinnett chamber as you pointed out. And you know, get involved. It’s, I have a saying, you
know, it’s never too late to become what you might’ve been. You know, and we’re not dogs and
these are tricks, you know, that’s what I like to say that at work, you know. So we have a
responsibility to our communities. Give, get involved. Don’t sit on the sideline and say I’m too
busy to give back to my community or to be involved or to be active. And so I started that at a
very early part in my business career to see and be seen. And that’s not easy when you’re, you
know, we’re already working 12 hour days. But I carve out that hour and a half for the first, you
know, the Southwest Gwinnett chambers first Friday, which is this week, you know. And so I’m
gonna always make time for those community activities and those organizations, which actually
help you become more visible in the community that you serve. Before you can be a big deal
outside of your community, you’ve gotta be a big deal inside your community. Or you have to
get a little feel inside of your community. And if you’re active and looking for those opportunities
to get involved, you know, look for your local chamber. Look for your, you know, look for church.
You know, here in Norcross, Norcross cooperative ministry, you know, there’s lots and lots of
places. Lots of places to get involved, and that’s gonna help your networking overall as well, so.
Karl: [00:41:23] Well, I want to thank you for that. I’m curious, so coming into the holiday
season, the end of the year, do you have much going on either professionally or personally, how
do you plan on closing out this year?
Barry: [00:41:35] Well, we, you know, the fourth quarter is typically our slowest quarter of the
year, but we’re still blessed to have a lot of project business, and a lot of orders to fill. We’re
winding down. I think, you know, the city of Atlanta looks for any reason to take a holiday or take
a break. And so the, you know, that block of time, you know, right around Thanksgiving is a nice
period of respite for everybody. Certainly the end of the year, you know, we think of December
as having one holiday, but in fact it almost has two holidays because you take Christmas and
than immediately is New Year’s a week after that. So that the city slows down a lot between
Christmas and New Year’s and we’ll probably close down that week between Christmas and
New Year’s. I like to give our associates that time off paid and give them a chance to rekindle,
you know, restrike and refresh, and spend time with their families.
Karl: [00:42:35] Amen, after 2020 folks could be ready for that. How do folks reach out to you if
they wanted to contact with more of you know, what you do, and what’s the best way to get in
touch with you?
Absolutely. Karl it’s, you know www.PeachtreeAwnings.com or www.TennesseeAwnings.com.
Barry: [00:43:01] Both companies have independent websites. You can find us on Facebook at
facebook.com/peachtreeawnings or /TennesseeAwnings. You’ll find that we have a social media
presence there and you can see lots of pictures of our current projects. You know, we’re
obviously, you can find us, call us up at our new location. It’s 770-409-8372.
Karl: [00:43:27] Well, I want to thank you so much for, you know, just carving out time to just
share with The Capitalist Sage. Barry Adams, founder and owner of Peachtree Awnings, and
Tennessee Awnings. And you’ll always see him at our local Southwest Gwinnett chamber
event. You know, stop by say hi, see him there. And I just want to thank you so much for
sharing some of the insight on your journey to entrepreneurship.
Barry: [00:43:54] Thanks, Karl. Thanks, Rico it’s good to be able to spend some time with you.
Karl: [00:44:00] We want to thank everybody on with the Capitalist Sage podcast today, we’re
continuing to bring you local business owners, local leaders, people in the community that
impact the business community and be a place. I’m Karl Barham with Transworld Business
Advisors of Atlanta Peachtree. Our business is available to consult with business owners,
whether you’re looking to improve and grow your business through acquisition, through
franchising, or you’re working on planning your exit strategy, finding someone that could take
the reins of the business into the future. Feel free to schedule a council with us. I can be
reached at KBarham@TWorld.com or www.TWorld.com/AtlantaPeachtree. Rico, what have you
got coming up?
Rico: [00:44:49] Sure. Peachtree Corners magazine, we’re working on the next issue and the
cover story is actually going to be faces of Peachtree Corners. So we’re working through a list of
people and students and educators that’ll be on that cover story. And like every other issue,
there’s going to be a bunch of things. So we’re covering a variety of things that you can look
forward to. You can find out more about Peachtree Corners and what we’re doing at
LivingInPeachtreeCorners.com. Follow us on social media. We’re really big on Instagram and
Facebook. Just look for the Peachtree Corners Magazine or Peachtree Corners Life and
Capitalist Sage, where you can find the podcast on Instagram as well as our website. So, you
know, go out and look for that. We also have Mighty Rockets, so we do a lot of digital marketing,
I’m the creative director for several different companies. I have lots of things I do. So if you’re
looking for video marketing, photography, content online, podcast production, I was engineering
today’s podcast. Feel free to reach out to me, go to MightyRockets.com. So it’s easy enough.
Karl: [00:46:00] Alright. Well, thank you everybody for tuning in for the Capitalist Sage podcast,
stay tuned for more episodes. Have a great day.
How to increase the value of your business, grow it and sell it, with Andrew Cagnetta
Andrew R. Cagnetta Jr., CEO of Transworld Business Advisors shares his insights on how to increase the value of your business, fatal mistakes sellers make, expansion through acquisition and franchising – and why it’s important to do charity work. Cagnetta joins Karl Barham and Rico Figliolini on the Capitalist Sage podcast. Recorded socially safe from City of Peachtree Corners, Georgia
Finding the topic in the show via Timestamp:
[00:00:30] – Intro
[00:02:43] – About Andy and Transworld
[00:04:21] – Challenges of DIY
[00:05:27] – Impacts in the Value of Businesses
[00:10:07] – Growing through Acquisition
[00:13:11] – Buying Businesses
[00:16:54] – Funding Acquisitions
[00:20:02] – Supporting the Community
[00:21:57] – Diversity in Business
[00:34:41] – Predictions for 2021
[00:36:51] – Recommended Media
[00:38:42] – Closing
“I mean the perfect way to describe business brokerage is like a realtor. You hire someone toAndrew Cagnetta
help market and sell your house and deal with the buyers and take the whole process from start
to finish. We’re a lot like that. We come into a business owners world. When they think about
selling their business, we help them understand what they have to offer the marketplace and
what they might get in the marketplace.”
Karl: [00:00:30] Welcome to the Capitalist Sage Podcast. We’re here to bring you advice and
tips from seasoned pros and experts and help you improve your business. I’m Karl Barham with
Transworld Business Advisors. My cohost is Rico Figliolini with Mighty Rockets, Digital
marketing and the publisher of the Peachtree Corners Magazine. Hey Rico, how’re you doing?
Rico: [00:00:47] Hey, Karl. Good, thanks. Hope you’re well.
Karl: [00:00:51] Well, why don’t you introduce our sponsor before we get started?
Rico: [00:00:55] Sure. Our lead sponsor is Hargray Fiber. They’re a major Southeast company
that is involved in fiber optics and IT. They’re involved in the communities that they are in
completely. Like in Peachtree Corners, for example, they’ve been involved with Curiosity Lab at
Peachtree Corners, the Smart City activity that we do, and the work that people need to be able
to keep working. Whether you’re distance working like teleworking, or you’re bringing your team
together at your office and such. So anytime you need IT work, fiber optics, smart tools to be
able to do your work, fiber optics and all that, that should come from Hargray Fiber. They’re not
your typical cable company. You can find them at HargrayFiber.com/Business. Check them out,
they have a promo going on. It’s a thousand dollar gift card for those companies that qualify and
become clients of theirs. So great people. We appreciate them sponsoring us.
Karl: [00:01:51] Thank you very much for introducing Hargray Fiber. As we’ve all gone digital
this year, schools, work from home, having high speed internet at home is really super critical.
And we’re just glad we have great partners in the community that can help with that. Today’s
guest, welcome to the bring in Andy Cagnetta who’s the CEO of Transworld Business Advisors.
One of the world’s largest business brokerage firms and has been around for over 40 years and
built a great fabulous business. But the treat of today is, he’s here to help talk about how
COVID-19 and how small business owners can think about the value of their business, their
options on when they’re ready to exit for the business going into the future. Hey, Andy, how are
Andrew: [00:02:40] I’m doing great. How are you both doing? Thanks for having me.
Karl: [00:02:43] Thank you so much for joining us today. I want to start off, why don’t you tell us
a little bit about yourself and how you got to be in this business brokerage industry?
Andrew: [00:02:53] I got to be in this business brokerage industry a lot the way other people
have gotten involved is they were in business for themselves. So I’ve had several businesses
and I’ve started a couple. I bought one and I sold one. And so when I decided to move to
Florida, my wife wanted to raise her family where she grew up, we decided to buy a business.
And through that process, I met Transworld and was asked to be on the staff and kind of the
rest is history. I bought the company two years later.
Karl: [00:03:22] Well, this, you’ve been doing this for quite a long time, and you’ve seen several
ups and downs in the industry in general. Why don’t we start off by talking about what is
business brokerage and what types of people benefit from their service. And we can talk about
how the economic impacts like we’re having in 2020 impacts those business owners.
Andrew: [00:03:46] Yeah. I mean the perfect way to describe business brokerage is like a
realtor. You hire someone to help market and sell your house and deal with the buyers and take
the whole process from start to finish. We’re a lot like that. We come into a business owners
world. When they think about selling their business, we help them understand what they have to
offer the marketplace and what they might get in the marketplace, as far as value is concerned.
We package up that business. We advertise it. We deal with the inquiries, we put meetings
together, and eventually we get a deal done and we earn a commission from that.
Karl: [00:04:21] Fabulous. So historically, if somebody were trying to sell the business
themselves, there’s some challenges to do that. What would be some of the typical challenges
people do when you’ve seen them try to do it themselves?
Andrew: [00:04:33] They don’t have the capabilities to do it in knowledge, right? So they really
don’t know what they’re doing. And it’s certainly not a time when you have your, maybe your
biggest financial transaction of your life at stake to experiment on yourself. You know, it’s kind of
like doing heart surgery on yourself. You really don’t want to do that. You know, one wrong step
with the right buyer. You’re not going to get a deal done. The second thing, the big thing that
business owners need to focus on, and we talked a lot about this in, you know, valuing your
business. They don’t have the time to do this. And if they take time away from their business
and focus on trying to get a deal done. The value of their business decreases very, very quickly
and they won’t get a deal done or, you know, they won’t get as much as they could have if they
would have focused on their business.
Karl: [00:05:27] Got it, got it. So this year, a lot of business owners have gone under, have
been under a lot of stress. COVID-19 hit, and the year 2019 was a great year for selling
businesses, for doing businesses. People were generating record revenues, profit, and then a
year like this happens. To the average business owner that took, you know, has been impacted
in this and is starting to come out, how does a year like this impact the value of their business?
Andrew: [00:05:59] So the, you know, the horrible news is right, this crisis has really hurt a lot of
businesses. And the only thing that I can urge business owners out there to do is try to survive.
Because if we get to the other side of this, if we get to a point where there is no COVID around
and business returns to somewhat normal. But let’s say it turns to 2018, 2019 levels, or even
less than that. You know, a little bit less than that. The values of our businesses will immediately
return. Because a business is worth what a buyer will make in the future. And if we could point
to the first three months of 2020, or even now, you know, like some restaurants are now
opening for the first time in a hundred percent capacity. So if they recover now, their business
will immediately be worth as much or even more. You know, I could see that the restaurants that
are better survive this and everybody starts to go back out once the vaccine comes along, I
think it will be, you’ll have a hard time getting a table at a restaurant. And they might even be
worth more. So, you know, the number one thing is you got to hang in there, right? And if you
hang in there, you know, the COVID crisis is like a lot of it. It’s a blip, you know, it’s a quick
downturn there will be recovery, or at least somewhat of a w. But, if they can hang in there, the
business value should return.
Karl: [00:07:30] That that’s a good point you’re making around hanging in there. But when
businesses have this lower period of demand, like over the month, if they’re not, what are some
things that business owners can do to make their business more valued when the clients and
the customers come back? What are things that they may not have had time to work on in the
past, but now they may have time to do? What would be some things that would help that
Andrew: [00:07:55] Well, you know, we always say, I have this talk and we don’t have time for it
today, but the 12 ways to increase the value of your business. And three of them is to keep
better books and records. So if you did not, before this COVID crisis hit. This is a great time to
get your inventory into an inventory system, to get a point of sale system implemented. I was
just talking to a listing that I have now, for a restaurant that didn’t have a point of sale system.
And he’s like, maybe it’s time I do it. Yeah, maybe while it’s slow and you get all your menu
items onto a point of sales system, then you’re going to have great books and records. And
great books and records will help your business sell much easier. So it is a time to kind of
structure your business and get that inventory system or that project management system or
that POS going right now.
Karl: [00:08:53] One of the other things I think is often a chance is when people stay really busy,
they don’t focus on the people in their business, their managers, supervisors, and so on. Can
you comment on the value of having a really good Lieutenant or someone that can continue to
drive the business once you exit it from the perspective of a buyer?
Andrew: [00:09:14] Yeah. I mean, you certainly don’t want to be the chief cook and bottle
washer because if you’ve ever read the E-Myth book, what you want to do is you want to have
that systems in place that is going to continue to bring in that money and those earnings.
Businesses are based on value of earnings. And the buyer is only going to pay a multiple of the
earnings if they think it’s you gonna stick around. Well if you’re the whole reason why the
business goes. And you’re the, you know, you’re the marketing officer and you’re the person
who’s the sales person and you’re the operations person. Then buyers are going to be very
hesitant to take over that job. If you have good people in place where all a buyer has to do is
come in and basically be a management person and oversee a system that is, you know,
running like clockwork. That’s going to increase the value of your business immensely.
Karl: [00:10:07] I’ve been talking to a couple of business owners that’s doing something
counterintuitive. During this year they’re actually growing and they’re growing through
acquisition. We see a lot of businesses that are consolidating and struggling. What are some of
your thoughts of those that are able to grow through acquiring other businesses during this time
or be beginning to scale? How does that impact the value in the future of the business?
Andrew: [00:10:32] Well, listen, you know and I know that businesses are valued based on their
quality and quantity of their earnings. So as a business earns more money, it’s worth a higher
multiple. So if a business earns a hundred thousand dollars, it may be worth two or three times.
If a business earns a million dollars, it could be worth three, four, five, maybe even six times. So
as the business grows, if you start acquiring people, and you get a hundred thousand dollars
here and $200,000 of earnings here. And you get those economies of scale and you get a
business that’s earning a million dollars, you’re going to make four or five times more. So this is
a great time to go around. And even, you know, I though that would be much more opportunity
for buyers, because I thought there would be a bigger COVID discount out there. I’m not seeing
it yet. I mean, you know, obviously earnings are down and prices may be down. But if the
business is currently making even 80% of what they used to do, or even, you know, 70%, those
businesses were still selling for, you know, good price.
Rico: [00:11:45] Let me ask you something. As you were talking about multiples and
acquisitions, what hit me was, does it, is it more, is it easier? Is it a better investment to
purchase multiple franchises let’s say if the, obviously of the same business in a variety of areas
than it is for a company that’s a sole owner looking out for similar types of companies to bring
them in under their fold. So, you know, if you’re a franchise owner buying more or if you’re a
single, you know, dry cleaners looking for other neighborhood dry cleaners. I mean, where
would the best investment be?
Andrew: [00:12:22] Well I, you know, listen I, the franchise system usually is a good system
because you know, what we try to do at Transworld is we’re building out infrastructure so people
don’t have to build it out themselves. So if you could buy a multi franchise units, you know, that’s
a great investment, right? So, you know, you always want to spread out your risk. So if you have
one unit that makes a lot of money, you know, it could be inherently risky. I mean, something
could go wrong in that town. Something could go wrong on that road. I mean, I’ve seen
businesses being on a road and they’d decide to redo the road and it’s you know, it’s closed or
almost closed for six months and it just ruins the business. So, multiple locations in any
business might be a better risk, so you can spread out that risk.
Karl: [00:13:11] I want to flip over to the buyer side. If you’re a person out there, maybe you
were in corporate America, maybe you’ve got an entrepreneurial itch that you want to scratch.
What would be some advice you’d give to folks when they’re looking for business so that they
actually get to the closing table and get the deal done?
Andrew: [00:13:29] You know, don’t have paralysis by analysis. And it’s, you know, you could
dive into these things, try to set up eight billion spreadsheets, and you could try to figure out
what the exact value of a business is. But I always laugh. The value of the business is going to
be determined by the sellers you know, factor of how bad they want to get out, right? I, you
know, I spoke to a seller yesterday. They had a business that’s earning $350,000 and we told
them, our franchisee told them that it was worth 700 and he says, get 450 and get me out quick.
Some buyer is going to get a great deal on that business. And so it’s always a factor of what the
seller will take to leave. But you know, if you’re going out there to buy a business, I would just
say, you’ve got to go do it. And number two is you’re not going to find the perfect business. If
you’re looking for that perfect business, that dots all the I’s and crosses all the T’s, you’re not
going to. As I say, it gets an ‘A’ on it’s report card in every single subject. That’s not going to
happen. There’s no perfect business out there. So, you know, what you want to do is you want
to buy a good business at a great price and make it great by bringing your talent to it.
Karl: [00:14:44] I’m talking to a lot of private equity and family and all these different types of
investor groups that are looking at business. And one of the things that’s always a challenge, I
could literally guess what they’re going to ask for in their business. They send the sheet in and
they’re looking for something with X amount of cashflow. They want it to be pretty much
absency run. There’s this laundry list of stuff, but they’re industry agnostic and they don’t have
an industry that they care about. What advice would you give to those types of folks to be more
successful in their search? Often they’re searching for three, four years and no deals have been
Andrew: [00:15:25] Yeah. I mean, you know, I’ve talked to some private equity groups and they
told me they look at it, and I think it was on our podcast they were talking about, they look at, it
was something ridiculous, like 1,200 deals a year or two thousands of deals a year. And they
transact on two. You know, they’re very picky. I would tell them that they need to be less picky.
We had a, you know, there’s these guys who come out of very smart business schools, Ivy
league and things, and they start these pledge funds where they get their friends, families, and
people they’ve met along the way. And even bankers that like these MBAs coming out of these
high end schools and say, if you find a deal, we’ll back you. Well, we did a deal with these guys
who they bought a painting company that was earning over a million dollars a year, almost $2
million a year. But what private equity group do you know, would buy a painting contractor? Not
many. So these two young kids, one of them, Harvard grad, I forget where the other one
graduated. Bought a painting contractor almost $2 million. And I think they bought it for like less
than 6 million. So here’s a great deal, but it’s going to be a little bit. You know, it’s not going to
be the easiest business to run. And that’s be their first deal. You’re know, then they’ll go into
something else I’m sure. So if you’re a family office that just got their money because you’re
patriarch or matriarch of your family died, you’re not going to be able to be that picky.
Karl: [00:16:54] I’m curious this year, there’s been a lot of stress on the lending and banking
with SBA between the CARES act, PPP, EIDL Loan, they got backed up. How are you seeing it
now for acquiring funding to purchase business and what should business owners now start
thinking about as options to fund acquisitions if lending isn’t as readily available?
Andrew: [00:17:19] Yeah. We saw this in 2009, in 2010, when we’re in Florida, we did, you
know, we were doing about 20% of our deals with SBA lending and then the next year, which
equated to about 50 deals, 40 deals. The next year we did two deals with SBA lending out of
hundreds. So the problem with that is the banks get scared of course. They’re not going to fund
the business that has falling revenues and profits. They’re going to want to see it be able to turn
around. I think it’s a little different this time. In the fact that we really didn’t know when the 2009,
2010 economic downturn would end. This one there’s a little bit more certainty. I know there’s
uncertainty, but we all believe that this is going to go away by mid next year or even 2022. So I
think if a business can show and everybody’s asking for the latest financials, don’t talk to me
about March and April. Show me you’ve done this summer. Show me what you did this last
quarter through September 30th. If they can show that they’ve somehow pivoted, recovered,
you know, right-sized the ship so they have earnings, I think you could get financing. But if you
can’t, which is going to be the majority of the businesses, you’re going to have to have seller
financing and earn outs. And you know, that’s a bad word to sellers, but it’s just the reality.
Karl: [00:18:46] For those that may not know the difference between a seller finance or an
earnout, can you share what that is for business owners that may not?
Andrew: [00:18:55] Sure. A promissory note or, you know, seller financing is a certain amount of
money. Say I got, you know, I got $500,000 or a million dollars for my business with half down,
or half and the rest of it in promissory note. The promissory note would say, when you get your
payments, how much the payments are, and you know how long the note is. If you get an
earnout, the earnout it’s going to be contingent upon the business metric. Whether it be sales,
earnings, gross profit, we like gross profit. And we can talk about that someday. But so, but it
can be variable. And a lot of times this works for sellers and buyers, because if there’s this
inherent risk in the marketplace and the seller’s like, listen, if I just had more cash then I could
get to 2022, this business is going to take off again. I really deserve more value. Well, okay.
Well, if you’re right in 2022, it’s 2023 and even 2021, if it’s going to go up, I’ll tell you what, I’ll
give you 25% of the profits, you know, based on this. So it’s variable and it can not happen at
Karl: [00:20:02] There’s so many creative ways to construct a deal that could work for both
buyer and seller. If I could ask you a little bit, one of the things that you shared with, with Ann
and I is, as a small business owner in the business, you’re in being involved in the community
and getting involved with different organizations and that. Can you talk a little bit around some of
the things that business owners can do to help support their community, especially in a year like
Andrew: [00:20:33] Yeah, I mean, listen, the great, one of the greatest things I ever did was sign
up to join the board of the local soup kitchen called LifeNet for families. And it’s literally changed
my life. And what people want to see in a person to do business with, people want to do
business with people they can trust and that they like. And to show that you’re trustworthy and
show that you’re a good person and become a trusted advisor in your community on anything,
people are gonna do business with people that do good. And I think that joining a board or
volunteering for a board or getting involved in whatever, you know, whatever cause you want to
get involved, it can really show the community that you’re willing to be a good partner. And I’ve
certainly chosen who I’ve done business with based on their nonprofit activities and them
helping, you know, be a good part of the community. So, yes, I’ve been involved with the junior
achievement and the United Way most recently, I was just rolled off as the chair of the United
Way. And it’s been an honor and I’ve learned so much from it. I have so many great friends and
I’ve gotten really good business and I didn’t start by saying, Hey, I need to give back to my
community because I want to do more business. That wasn’t the start, but it certainly has been
very valuable to us.
Karl: [00:21:57] This year I know, there’s a lot going on when it comes to diversity and social
justice issues out there in the community. I’m curious from your vantage point of looking at
business brokerage and so on, I’ve noticed that there’s a lot of brokerage firms that don’t have a
lot of diversity, a lot of women in it and so on. What are some of the things that are, that
might’ve been driving that and what are things that can be done to help improve that going into
Andrew: [00:22:27] It comes down to education and opportunity and giving people opportunity. I
have a great partnership with a friend. He’s the president of Broward college here, which is one
of the top community colleges. And he has a thing called Broward up and he realizes that, you
know, as a young man and he grew up in New York, he didn’t hear about college until he was
like in high school. And you know, other kids grow up knowing about college and other kids
grow up knowing about entrepreneurship and investing. And I think the big thing that we can do
is try to, you know, encourage those communities, give those, encouraging those communities,
exposure to our you know, exposure to our marketplace and opportunities out there and show
them out to do it and encourage them to do it. And there are going to be, I think, opportunities
moving forward for people. I think this is a great awakening of our society to say that, you know,
not everybody had an equal leg up. Part of why I’m involved in charity is because I do believe I
had privilege. My college was paid for, I was, you know, I was never discriminated against really
in my life. I mean, and so I want to be able to give those opportunities other. And I think that
Transworld, you know, we already have models of it, right? Just think about the immigrant
populations and what they do. They’re buying the convenience stores, they’re buying the hair
salons, they’re buying these small mom and pop businesses. Maybe, what we need to do is go
in show others that they can do that, even people who aren’t immigrants, and teach them how to
grow and multiply those businesses. Perhaps like we were talking about earlier franchising.
Karl: [00:24:17] Absolutely. I think that’s a great point. I think giving access to opportunity and
knowledge about the option is a great point to start at. But then even continuing that further. You
described several things people need to know to acquire a business, how to get a loan, what
comes first in your search, what you can look for. Outreach to different groups of people with
that knowledge could self close the gap. But I think we’ve got 20 years in which people have
gotten more education, people of color, women, graduating with degrees, graduating from the
Harvards and the Yales of the world. They’ve worked in corporate America for 20, 25 years.
They’ve accumulated some capital, but that last leap of jumping into entrepreneurship might be
the next step. And sometimes it may take mentorship or sponsorship or just someone that can
guide them down the path a little bit further if we could do it. If there was one thing you can
magically do to help really drive that change in society. What would it be? Where would you
Andrew: [00:25:19] You know, think about all the things that have been successful. Like pell
grants and getting people small business loans and minority statuses for businesses. I think we
need to take all those things and we’ve got to multiply them by 10, right? I mean, and you just
said it, you know, there’s been opportunities over the last 20 years for some people to break
through that we have to take those examples and we have to multiply by 10 and we have to give
awareness. You know, I’ve been on, one of the things that I want to do moving forward for
Transworld is be a part of that. Be a part of that, you know, fight against structural racism and
understand how do we beat that? How do we help those communities, you know, become
entrepreneurs? You know, there’s all these things, you know, that your success has a lot to do
with what your zip code is. I mean, just crazy things, and your color, as far as opportunities,
what your name is when you put your resume in. All these things we have to battle. And I think
at Transworld, we can be a part of showing people how to take opportunity. Educate them.
Because I think still, as we talked about earlier, growing your business through acquisition or
becoming an entrepreneur is still one of the best kept secrets. And one of the best investments
you can make, that’s really, people don’t even understand.
Karl: [00:26:45] I was on a conference call, go ahead Rico.
Rico: [00:26:47] I was going to say, I wanted to build a little bit about what your, what you were
saying before too about immigrant population buying into small businesses, about teaching and
mentoring. You know, my father came from Italy and he bought his own business. He worked
hard. But he worked hard before he bought that business, right? And I’m thinking, what people
need maybe is a little bit more, not just education, but that mentoring part, almost that
handholding, if you will. Because you find that in a variety of ethnic communities, right? I know
several friends in the Asian community where they help others within their community, actually
walk them through buying or setting up their own business, getting their finance for that
business and actually walking them through the whole process. And then bang, they open the
door. I mean…
Andrew: [00:27:38] You think about some of the ethnic communities that have come into certain
businesses and done well and you see that. And sometimes it’s a lot of businesses that people
don’t want to be in. The carwash, and sometimes it’s out of necessity. There’s you know, there’s
all kinds of studies about food deserts and things like that. But you think about those under
served communities, right? And you think about people like Magic Johnson going into those and
opening Starbucks and opening movie theaters and giving opportunities. But you think those
places needed small markets. So you know, out of necessity people can’t get jobs. People can’t
get food. They’re starting these small little businesses and we need to give them power. We
need to give them the ability to go to a better neighborhood and open up another business like it
and do well. You know, just think of all the, you know, the food and the service businesses and
you know, that they can do well. And you see pockets of that and we need to multiply those
efforts. And you’re right, Rico, my you know, my grandfather came from Italy as well, was an ice
and pole man. He had his own truck. And they worked really hard, but you know, I do think that
there was a difference. You know, we’ve been able to blend into the community and I, you
know, sometimes black and brown people do not have that opportunity, as we did.
Rico: [00:29:05] For sure. And I think also when you’re facing discrimination. It’s easier, I think if
you had your own business and empowered that way. Because you’re already past that point,
right? You don’t have to worry about discrimination and someone’s going to promote you or give
you more money for your job. Maybe you’re being paid less than the guy or girl next to you, for
whatever reason. But you’re making it on your own, right? You’re empowered to be able to,
based on the hard work you do and how smart you are.
Andrew: [00:29:36] I mean, here’s the really good news. I think, the really good news. I think it’s
easier to become an entrepreneur than ever. Just think of all the gig economy jobs that are out
there. And I just saw an article that somebody emailed me because of one of my, I had 20
predictions for the 2020, the next decade. I did not predict the CoronaVirus, but one of the
things I did predict is that the gig economy would eventually start selling their businesses. That
you know, that an influencer on Instagram could eventually sell her business or, you know,
somebody on tik tok will be able to sell their business. And, you know, I think that we have to,
we have to embrace that too. Right? And it has to start in elementary school and colleges. We
have to embrace, we have to teach people how to become entrepreneurs.
Rico: [00:30:36] For sure.
Karl: [00:30:38] I think you’re raising a good point. One of the things that I’d add to that, a
mentorship helps. The other thing is eliminating barriers. There are so many things structurally
in place that prevents people, whether it’s lending and getting SBA loans, whether it’s finding
and sourcing deals. When a good deal comes up, you have to know someone that knows about
the deals, make friends with a broker. So he’s going to follow him near his good deal. There’s
people that have that access to talent. Good employees. Good systems. And then there’s also,
there’s community too, sometime it’s the business associations, chambers of commerce, where
they network and a lot of information is shared. And access is given. And opening that up so
more people are welcomed or brought into those things so those opportunities are shared
among a lot more. So there’s definitely a lot of work to do, but I love that I’m starting to see
people become awakened to that. I see leaders like yourself, Rico. We’ve done several
podcasts about justice in the community and you did a fabulous job with the Peachtree Corners
magazine talking about diversity in Peachtree Corners. And we’re starting to talk about it.
People are starting to behave differently and reach out and start understanding people
differently. And I’d share with you an interesting opportunity that came through. And a business
owner came into my office. And didn’t know if his business had any value. And we did an
analysis and I said, you know what? He was contemplating shutting it down and retiring. 66
years old, ready to retire. He’s going to send out a letter to his customers and say that he’s
going to head out, you know, retire. But instead we said, you know, this business has value, it
generates a cashflow. And it’s a good, it’s a gig business, a gig economy business that he built.
And he only worked maybe four to five hours a week in the business. It sounded pretty good.
We helped him put it on the market and guess what? We got a couple of offers on it, but the
person that purchased it was a person of color. In the corporate, works for a corporation, but is
starting to think about that entrepreneurship. And helping navigate him through the path. We
ended up closing on that he’s able to own the business. But the interesting thing when they
came back, the two of them, one gentleman was black and they became good friends talking
afterward during the transition. And this is the first business this gentleman’s going to buy. He’s
going to buy others over time. And that’s sometime, it’s getting that first one under your belt.
Learning from the process and then being able to replicate that. And the best part is at the
closing, I got a picture of the buyer and seller, the buyers kids were there. So he’s setting the
example for his kids about entrepreneurship. And more of that needs to happen. We just need it
to happen faster.
Andrew: [00:33:31] Yeah. I mean, I think that’s exactly it. We have to multiply that by thousands.
And so I, you know, and so I think it’s kind of like what Broward college is doing instead of
expecting people to come to college, they need to go into the communities and bring the college
to them. And I think we as business brokerage community and as entrepreneurs need to bring
those opportunities to those neighborhoods. I mean, whether it’s talking at high schools,
whether it’s having buyer seminars, seller seminars. I mean, but just giving people those
opportunities, you know, right where they live. So…
Karl: [00:34:10] Well, I know in our community, both Transworld and business brokerage in
general, we have a lot of people out there that have the knowledge and skill. It’d be great to see
as more get involved in their community organizations. How can we help bring more people to
the table as part of that? So that’s going to be an interesting challenge that we could take on
and help this bigger picture as a country. So thank you for that.
Andrew: [00:34:39] Yeah, no, I agree.
Karl: [00:34:41] So predictions for 2021, Andy. If you were a business owner right now, when do
you start planning on selling your business and what are the things you should be doing fourth
quarter of this year, assuming that this will, this period of the world’s history will pass and we get
a vaccine and businesses start opening up. What are some of the things you think folks should
do this quarter to be ready for 2021?
Andrew: [00:35:11] You know, if I was wanting to sell my business in 2021, I would do
everything I could to acquire new customers. And you know, it is an opportune time. Just think,
you know, say again in the restaurant business, I would do anything I could to acquire new
customers. And I think you can, because if 20 or 30% of the restaurants that are closed right
now are never going to reopen, that means that there’s people out there and they’re finally
coming out of their houses. So I would immediately do anything I could to get those people and
get those revenues and earnings up. I mean, we have a restaurant for sale right now that’s
doing better than before the COVID crisis, because he has been marketing and doing a lot of
takeout and did the right thing. So I think there’s opportunities for any business owner to
continue to get more business. So number one, get more business and number two, have the
capacity to bring on more business in 2021. Because again, we’ll want to buy on the upswing
and no better time to have an upswing than when you had it. Well, you know, the chart can look
good over the next. I mean, if March and April were disaster for you, the rest of the year could
look good. And then into 2021 could look great. And that’s what I highly urge people to do. Like
Rico was saying earlier, you know, it might be a time to hire. It might be a time to hire that new
person that’s going to put you on social media for the first time ever. You know, it’s time to have
growth strategies. Certainly not to put the brakes on and put your head in the sand.
Karl: [00:36:51] You mentioned earlier the book, ‘The E-Myth’. Are there any other books you’d
recommend for business owners as they’re going through the journey? Especially if they’re
thinking about exiting in the next three to five years.
Andrew: [00:37:03] You know, I have my favorite negotiating book, which is ‘Never Split the
Difference’ by Chris Voss. And I like his style because if you think about selling your business
and you think it’s this high powered, ridiculous back and forth, you know, bloody negotiation, it
can’t be. I mean, it takes a long time to sell your business. It’s your baby. You’re selling it to
somebody else who wants it to be their baby. You can’t beat each other up through the process.
And we’re there to kind of referee that. So that’s one book I would suggest that they read. So
they don’t have that mindset that it needs to be this hard fought. It needs to be a good deal for
Karl: [00:37:43] Oh, fabulous. If you wanted to learn more online, is there, how can folks learn
more about this process and just, you know, buying and selling businesses in general for folks
on either side of that equation?
Andrew: [00:37:58] Yeah, sure. There’s a lot of stuff out there. I mean, you know, I know we’d
like to plug our podcast too, The Deal Board. We have almost a hundred episodes now and, you
know, it’s a great place to learn the ins and outs of buying a business. Obviously our website as
well, and you know, I’ll just throw it out there that we’re willing to sit down with people. We,
again, we want to be trusted. We’re here for the long term in your communities. We’re not here
just for transactions. We’re here to watch people be successful and help them be successful. So
just include us in your plans. Let us sit down with your investment advisor and your accountant
and your attorney and let’s plan out how we’re going to exit you over the next two, three years.
Karl: [00:38:42] Excellent. Well, Andy, I want to thank you so much for sharing a lot of great
wisdom. We covered a lot of terrain in this conversation today and, just really good to have
someone like you give your perspective and insight into what’s happening this year. And if I take
anything away, I think people should be optimistic about it. I think we’ve navigated the toughest
part of this, as a country, as a world. And if you own a business, it’s about putting your head
down, grinding, getting customers back, building your business into the future. And for those
that may, you know, be struggling or may not be able to open up. It’s a great time to find a new
business to buy or to invest in if they could. So I want to thank you for that. What do you have
going on? Do you have anything going on in this fourth quarter as we’re rounding out the year?
What’s keeping you busy?
Andrew: [00:39:35] Well, I, you know, I do have our big charity events, so my wife does one
called Peace Rocks. And so we have a kickoff for that. And again, we’re, I think this year we
usually have wide bands. So I think we’re doing a drive in theater this week. And tonight at the
same time, as that kicks off, I have my pasta dinner meeting, which usually happens in the first
quarter. We had a thousand people last year, we raised $268,000 for the soup kitchen. And
we’re just trying to decide how we’re going to do it next year. But you know, we’re going to do it
and we’ll figure out a way. And looking forward to that night. I just want to give you kudos, Karl. I
mean, the amazing thing that I had through my business journey is for great people to partner
with us. And I’m honored to have you and join in our franchise and, you know, amazing and take
what we believe is, you know, doing good deals for good people to other communities. So thank
you Karl, for being a great part of that and Rico, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.
Karl: [00:40:36] If folks wanted to reach you Andy, what’s the best way to reach you?
Andrew: [00:40:41] Just at TWorld.com or AC@TWorld.com. It’s that simple. I’m all over the
place. So I’m sure you could find me. But, happy to talk to anybody.
Karl: [00:40:51] Well thank you again for joining us today. So that’s Andy Cagnetta. He’s the
CEO of Transworld Business Advisors, one of the world’s largest business brokerage firms, and
for over 40 years been doing good deals for good people. And just wanted to share insight on
what business owners can start thinking about as they’re going into 2021. Positioning
themselves for a successful exit, if they’re ready or even if they’re ready, acquire more and
become bigger and get that multiple up on their business. So thank you for that. I’m Karl
Barham with Transworld Business Advisors of Atlanta Peachtree. Our business is here to help
people, consult with them, help them figure out how to exit the business when the time is right.
And if you’re looking to improve or grow or through acquisition, feel free to reach out to myself or
anyone on my team. KBarham@TWorld.com is the best email, but also find us
www.TWorld.com/AtlantaPeachtree. And Rico, why don’t you tell us a little bit about what you’ve
got coming up?
Rico: [00:41:54] Sure. First I want to say thank you for bringing on Andy because dealing with,
you know, talking with you as a cohost on the show for what 50, almost 50 episodes. About 47,
48. I’ve learned a lot. So, and I’ve even adjusted my business a little bit because of what we talk
about on a weekly basis. So all good stuff. As far as what’s going on with Peachtree Corners
Magazine, we’re at deadline. We’re working through this deadline this week. It goes to the
printer on Monday. So we have quite a few articles and there’s some major stuff on backyard,
great backyard retreats, pets and their people. We just finished the giveaway we just had. So
we were going to be announcing the three winners on that. And we have a feature in there
about, thankful things. Things, people are thankful for. Messages from a lot of students, a lot of
parents in Peachtree Corners, that’s going to be a cool thing. Then, you know, we’re planning
the next few podcasts, certainly with Capitalist Sage and, city manager, and Peachtree Corners
Life. So there’s that. And of course, if anyone needs marketing, digital marketing, online content,
videos, you know, product videos, podcast production. Feel free to reach out to me. You can
reach me at Rico@MightyRockets.com or check out Rico figliolini if you could spell that on
LinkedIn. I’m sure you’ll, if you search it on Google, you can’t miss me. It’ll pop up somewhere
I’m sure. But LivinginPeachtreeCorners.com is the magazine website. You can find all the
podcasts there as well and everything about Peachtree Corners. So this is the place to go. And I
want to thank you again, Hargray Fiber for being a lead sponsor with us.
Karl: [00:43:32] Thank you everybody for tuning in. We got more great episodes coming up. Be
safe out there and get ready for the fall. It’s here. Take care everyone.
Rico: [00:43:42] Bye everyone
How to Position Your Small Business to Grow Sales During and After COVID-19 [Podcast]
The pandemic has changed customers and their buying habits. That’s without question. So how do you talk to them now and in the next normal time? Open Window Marketing founder Lisa McGuire joins Karl Barham and Rico Figliolini to discuss brand positioning and more.
Marketing Tips for Small Business Owners to end 2020 strong.
- The 3 Customer Profiles of 2020 – how your customer has changed
Customers have shifted from pre-pandemic to the pandemic to the next normal. How can you possibly know what to say?
- Why traditional marketing no longer works and how to move forward.
Traditional marketing talks about the features of the product and why they are the best choice. In our noisy world, you need a new approach.
- Why your personal brand is even more important to help you drive more revenue
Timestamp, where to find it in the podcast:
[00:00:30] – Intro
[00:03:10] – About Lisa
[00:04:01] – Marketing Mistakes
[00:05:43] – Changing Clientele
[00:09:33] – Importance of an Online Presence
[00:16:14] – Clarifying Your Message
[00:21:14] – Traditional Marketing
[00:23:57] – Spending and Personal Branding
[00:30:17] – Marketing Done Correctly
[00:31:52] – Closing
“And the big idea to take away from this is the customers that you’ve had no longer exist.Lisa Mcguire
They are now pandemic customers. They have new problems, they have new priorities. So what
do you need to do in your business to shift your product line and offerings? To meet these new
problems, or if you still connect with their problem, how do you need to shift your message?”
Karl: [00:00:30] Welcome to the Capitalist Sage Podcast. We’re here to bring you advice and
tips from seasoned pros and experts to help you improve your business. I’m Karl Barham with
Transworld Business Advisors, and my cohost is Rico Figliolini with Mighty Rockets Digital
Marketing and the publisher of Peachtree Corners Magazine. Hey Rico, how are you doing?
Rico: [00:00:47] Good Karl. It’s a beautiful day considering how much rain we had the other day.
Karl: [00:00:53] I know, I know. This storm has gone past and now we’ll hopefully get some
better days going ahead. Things are getting cooler for the fall. Why don’t you introduce our
Rico: [00:01:04] Yes. Our lead sponsor is Hargray Fiber. Hargray Fiber is a Southeast based
company that does internet connectivity. They handle fiber optics, which is the main drive of any
internet home or office, right? So they’re in the communities that they serve as well. So they’re
not your cable guy, right? They’re not a company that just has an office there. They’re involved
in the communities that they’re in, whether they’re involved with local companies. So for
example, in Peachtree Corners, they’re involved with Curiosity Lab at Peachtree Corners with
the city. They’re providing internet connectivity to a lot of companies in the area. So if you are
interested in Fiber optics in a company that’s local that has a local presence, and that can give
you the tools you need, like smart office tools to be able to operate your employees at home or
in the office, reach out to HargrayFiber.com or you could go to Hargray.com/Business. And they
have a promotion going on, a thousand dollars visa gift card for those companies that qualify
becoming a client of theirs, so check them out.
Karl: [00:02:10] Oh, that’s fabulous. Everyone needs more internet, more speed and I’m glad to
have good businesses like Hargray in our community to help business owners with that. Today,
I am honored and pleased to have a great guest. In this fourth quarter as we’re coming in,
rounding out 2020, most business owners have seen all sorts of impacts. Some have grown,
some have stayed the same. Some have actually seen some reduction in their customer. What I
know for sure if you’re going to have a great fourth quarter and start off 2021 well, you’ve got to
focus on growth. And today we have Lisa McGuire here to talk about how small business
owners can really focus their marketing and sales efforts in concert. To help them really have a
springboard to their growth in 2020 through 2021. Hi Lisa, how’re you doing today?
Lisa: [00:03:07] I’m doing great Karl. Thank you so much for having me.
Karl: [00:03:10] Oh, pleasure. Well, Lisa McGuire is a business growth and adviser. And a
marketing consultant with Open Window Marketing. And I’d love for her to introduce herself and
tell a little bit of how she helps people in business.
Lisa: [00:03:25] So, one thing we know is when business owners started their business, they
wanted to do the work they love. They didn’t necessarily want to wear all the hats that a
business owner has to wear when running a business. So what I do is I come in and help them
determine how to figure out who their ideal client is, how do they connect with that client, what
message does that client need to hear, to be able to engage with them, and then how to grow
their business through marketing that works. And then it filters into the other areas, productivity,
the mission of their company, the culture of their workforce too.
Karl: [00:04:01] Wow. Well, I’ll tell you, I look at a lot of P&Ls for business owners. And one of
the things that really becomes apparent, I look at how one business owner spends on marketing
and ask some questions about that. And then I look at another one who may not do a lot of
marketing. You’ll hear a lot of, I grew my business through referrals and so on. And I realized
there’s a big difference when you look at the performance of growth, those that focus on that
marketing versus those that don’t. But when they start business, they didn’t really think about
that. What are some of those mistakes you see business owners making when it comes to
marketing their business in general?
Lisa: [00:04:45] Yeah, just kinda marketing their business in general. What they’re looking at,
they’re looking at, okay, what is it that I have to sell and how can I push it out to get as many
people to buy it as possible? They’re not looking at it from the customer perspective of what do
they need to hear. All they know is I’ve got this many widgets to sell, or I’ve got to book this
many billable hours, and what can I do to make people buy from me. And so what they end up
doing is they’ve got this message they repeat over and over that isn’t connecting with their
clients. They put a lot of money into tactical things. They’ll do Facebook ads, they’ll pay a lot of
money for SEO to get people to come to their website. But what happens is the message that
they’re using either to get people there, or once they are on the site, it’s not converting because
it doesn’t matter to the customer. They talk about features. They forget about them.
Karl: [00:05:43] Wow. Well this year, has gotta be really interesting. For many businesses
because of the pandemic, their customers might have change. Either new customers are
coming through or what their existing customer needs have changed. How would you walk
someone through looking at a situation like that?
Lisa: [00:06:04] Yes, this has been a year that was unthinkable. We never could have imagined
it. And so if you think about back to January, February, we had pre-pandemic customers. Things
for going along, if you remember just a couple months before that we were celebrating a new
decade, there were all kinds of analogies, the 2020 vision, we’re going to make this the decade
that really makes the difference. And then the unthinkable happens. We have this global
pandemic. And really the whole world, as far as the business world in the United States, just
kind of came to a standstill. You know, we were in a period, if you remember back think when
they said, if you just quarantine for a couple of weeks, we’ll get through this. And so it was
uncharted territory. So here’s what we found with businesses. They did one of three things.
They either continued with their marketing as usual. They used a different message and pivoted
their message. Or they said nothing at all. So if we look at those three things, continuing
marketing business as usual would tell their customers you’re insensitive to what’s happening in
my life. Why are you going on acting like this world has not changed? The ones that went quiet,
what happened is they made a space for other businesses to come in and take their place. But
the businesses that won, the businesses that did well, were businesses who first of all
acknowledged what was happening and became very empathetic to your customers. You know,
there was and continues to be, but initially a lot of fear. A lot of anxiety, anxious, you know,
what’s going to happen to my business? What’s happening with my family? Am I in danger with
my health? So making sure that you really understand that customer and who they are was
really critical. So we heard a lot of messages, we’re in this together. You know, we’ve heard the
new normal, we heard all of those things to really unify our market place to be able to reach
them. But now we’re what, six months into the seven months into this, I guess, because it’s six.
Now you’ve got a third type of customer. You’ve got the customer that is realizing, okay, this is
our new way of life for now. You know we’re moving forward, so what can we do? Our whole
world has been disrupted. If you think about it or work lives, our home lives, how we consume
media, how we purchase, what we value up, like everything has been shifted. So what can we
look at what the customers, what they need now? And what the big idea to take away from this
is, the customers that you’ve had no longer exist. They are now pandemic customers. They
have new problems, they have new priorities. So what do you need to do in your business to
shift your product line and offerings? To meet these new problems, or if you still connect with
their problem, how do you need to shift your message? And that is the advice I would give
business owners heading into 2021. If you’re using a pre pandemic message, you’re talking to a
client who is no longer existing.
Rico: [00:09:33] Lisa, do you, what do you find from the clients that you talk to from the
companies you talked to more effective? You know, as far as business goes, what tools are
they implementing? What are they changing that they weren’t doing before the pandemic?
Lisa: [00:09:51] Well, I think the thing that has become very apparent to business owners is if
you did not have an online presence, you need to have one. You know, I’m very active in
networking and in those first couple of weeks, people were trying to figure out how do we
network if we can’t go to coffee? How we will reach people? How are people going to find me?
And you know, if you look even at restaurants, they had to do a quick of it. How do we get
people to consume our food? How do we make them feel like they’re safe? So being online and
making sure that your customer experience online is seamless. That has been the big shift that
I’ve seen with most people is figuring out, okay, how do I go online and switch my products.
Rico: [00:10:38] You know, what’s interesting. I think in the restaurant business especially, it
was easier, right? Because you had Yelp, you had Door Dash, you had Grub Hub, you had all
these businesses. If you wanted food, you could, you would go out and you’d find it. You know,
where you could go. The problem is with, you know, with a place like a yoga place or a soap
maker type of store, it’s difficult, right? Because people aren’t quite looking for that and they may
want it, but they just don’t know. So there’s that two-sided edge to that right? You do, but I agree
with you. You have to be online, but it’s way more difficult for some businesses than others.
Lisa: [00:11:17] Yes, it definitely is. So we saw a lot of people in the health and fitness space go
online and start having virtual yoga classes, things such as that. We found brick and mortar
stores suddenly had to have an eCommerce site. But the other thing too, we have this
opportunity of where we may have been marketing within a geographical area, is now we could
extend our services, you know, you can network nationally or internationally. I’m working with a
couple of clients who did work with local Atlanta businesses or local Atlanta clients. And now
their clients are all across the United States. So how do they find them? How do they reach
them? How do they connect with them?
Karl: [00:12:01] It’s easy to understand the power of being online. And I visit businesses and I
look at their websites all the time and it’s a pandemic in itself how bad some of these websites
are. People don’t put a lot of attention. When you look at a website, someone doing it right, what
are some of the things? Maybe not technical, but what are some of the things that you find helps
business owners be more reachable and successful online?
Lisa: [00:12:33] Yeah. So the first thing, you know, as we talk about websites, Karl the thing I
would invite people to do is if you think you have a great website, look at two or three of your
competitors and go to their websites. And what you’re going to find, it’s very likely you’re all
saying the same thing. So what you have to do is figure out how am I going to stand out?
There’s a couple of different ways to do that. So the immediate piece of advice I can give all
your listeners today, you can go and do this and start making money tomorrow. Make sure you
have clear call to action buttons. And you want them all over your homepage. So you want one
in the upper right hand corner. In that hero shot area. You want one in the middle of that hero
shot area and make sure those call to action buttons are a different color than the rest of your
website. Make sure they’re the same color throughout as you cascade down the page. As you
scroll down the page make sure there’s always a call to action button in the screen as well as in
the upper right hand corner. Because here’s what happens, the visitor may not be ready to
purchase from you or maybe ready to take the next step with you initially, but as they scroll
down the page and start learning more about you, Oh, now I want to know more. And so you
want to make it convenient. We call that call to action button, your cash register. So why would
you hide your cash register in the back ladies room? You want to make sure they’re all over the
place, right? So that’s something you can do to start making money today. So that’s one thing, if
that’s helpful to you.
Karl: [00:14:13] Yeah, that’s great advice. The other thing is, there’s this thinking around Google
pay-per-clicks and Facebook ads and so on. How do they, how do business owners use those
to integrate with their website?
Lisa: [00:14:28] Yeah. So there certainly is a place for paid ads. And you know, the thing is, is
you start with your website. You want to make sure that Google recognizes your website as a
quality website. So I’m going to answer your question, Karl, but I’m going to kind of connect
these two. First of all, Google’s going to try and watch and monitor to see, are people when
they’re on your website, are they staying on it long? If they can register that they’re staying on it
long, that signals to Google, there is quality content on there. So again, your message is so
important. So when you go to a website, you should be able to immediately know what the
business does. It is astounding, the number of business websites I see, I can’t tell what they do.
I have to know what you sell. What do you do for me? Making sure that you are updating
content. And so that would be having a blog on your website, talking about topics that people
have questions about. And, you know, people say, I don’t know what to write in a blog. Think
about this, what are the top five questions people ask you about your business? Those will be
your first five blog topics. And so putting those on there, that’s going to give you some organic
reach with SEO in that. But then when you get to ads, paid ads, that’s when you can drive
people to your website whether it’s Facebook ads or Google ads. And I recommend not trying to
do it yourself, work with a digital marketing specialist who knows what they’re doing. I believe in
paying experts for what they know so well.
Karl: [00:16:14] There’s a subset of business owners that I know struggle in this space. And it’s
in the professional services. Lawyers, accountants, etc. Very smart, very talented in their
profession. But when it comes to marketing themselves, maybe not as strong. And their content
can be confusing to the layman. Finding the intricacies of tax law for how to get out of speeding
tickets or whatever that might be. For those types of businesses, how can their messaging on
their website help them? What would be something they can do to guide people in?
Lisa: [00:16:54] Yeah, so a really great way to do that because, you know, here’s the thing we
want those experts. And when you need someone like that, you want someone who knows what
they’re doing, who knows all the intricacies and you know, the ins and outs of how to practice
their profession very well. But what happens is when you speak with them, because they are so
educated and they’re so good at what they do. You’ll find a lot of times they tend to use what we
call insider language. So they’ll use industry terms. And when they start using those, the person
reading the website or the person listening to the message, what goes on in their mind is they
say, I don’t know what that means. So they either get stuck trying to figure it out, what are they
talking about? Or they just stopped listening because it’s too much work to try and keep up with
the person communicating the message. So that is one thing I would advise for those folks, is to
stop using insider language. To make your language, make your website as if a 10 year old
could read it and understand it. You want the language to be that simple. You’ll be able to bring
in your credibility and authority the longer people stay on your website, but that would be the
first thing I would suggest. The second thing I would suggest is make sure that you really get to
the problem that your customer has. And here’s the thing, traditional marketing was talking
about the business. Today, great marketing is being known for the problem that you solve. So I’ll
use a tire store for an example. This one I use quite frequently. So if I sell tires, I am not selling
tires. That’s not the problem I solve when somebody needs tires. The problem I’m solving is
someone needs to have a vehicle that is safe on the road because they have quality tires. The
problem I’m solving is someone has to turn in their car for a lease and they’ve got to update their
tires so it meets qualifications. So look at for the customer, what is that pain they are
experiencing? How is it making them feel? And being known for solving that problem, that is the
way that you go in as a professional service provider and speak to them.
Karl: [00:19:20] It’s interesting, as you’re saying that, it made me think of this concept around
demand generation and leading the customer to discover or clarify the problem they have and if
you’re the person that helps them do that. And a lot of professional services, I talked to
someone the other day, a client the other day, and they were concerned about, they took out
PPP loans and EIDL loans this year. And so as they’re going through, I mentioned to them, they
have to process or apply for forgiveness. They looked at me kind of shocked. You mean it
doesn’t happen automatically? And so I know lots of financial advisors and CPAs and
accountants and folks that help in that area. No one’s talking about that problem that’s out there
that people may not know. And is that an example of some blog and/or content around that
particular problem that would help someone find a professional service site?
Lisa: [00:20:25] That is a very timely and perfect example, Karl. Because, so these people
walked into these situations, you know, okay, this is great. You’re telling me I can get this
money. How does this work? They were very good about leading them to it, but now is the next
step of now you’ve got to apply for forgiveness. Well, these people don’t know how to do it.
What does that look like? How do I? Is there a way I could do it and mess it up? Please help me
figure that out. So that is the next step of when the bank says okay, now it’s time, wherever you
were able to secure. It says, okay, now it’s time to start moving it along. We have no idea of
what that means. So you’ve got to spell that out as well. Yeah. Great example.
Karl: [00:21:14] Well, if I can ask a little about some of the more traditional forms of marketing.
This year, I don’t know how many movies were released between March and September, but no
one’s watching ads between movies anymore. What did the role of these other different
vehicles, whether it’s ads and papers and magazines and those types of direct marketing. What
role does that play in marketing today? And should people still be investing in those?
Lisa: [00:21:47] So, yes, there’s a lot of different types of marketing. And that’s the thing when
you talk to someone that has a marketing company that can mean a dozen different things, a
dozen different directions. And people are always looking for quick fixes, but I really, you know,
the way I describe marketing is imagine you were going on a cross country trip, you know, you
know, your goal is to get the other side of the country. You would not think of getting in your car
and just starting to drive without putting gas in the tank and making sure you have snacks. You
might, you know, plug in your GPS where you’re going, or, you know, you’ve got your Google
maps, you make a plan. You don’t just start getting, you don’t get in your car and just start
driving wherever you want. Well, that’s what people do with their marketing. So, okay I need to
market. Maybe I’ll try direct mail. Oh no, no, we don’t do direct mail because you know, I don’t
use direct mail. So why would anybody else use that? But even here’s a really great rate or
maybe I’ll try these Facebook ads and I’ll boost the post myself. Well, maybe so they’re all over
the place. So the first thing I would recommend for any business owner is to just sit down with
someone who knows what they’re talking about in marketing and develop a strategy. You know,
come up with a 12 month plan, a six month plan, a three month plan. Allocate some budget to it
because your business will grow in one of two ways. Your business is either going to grow by
innovating. So that’s changing up, pivoting, doing something better. Or it’s going to grow by
marketing. So you’ve got to make that investment one way or the other. And when you start
seeing traction, that’s when you’ll have, you know, more to be able to boost from. But you’re not
going to have that traction. You’re going to be wasting your money if you start going into
different areas that don’t apply to you. And I think what happens a lot of business owners,
they’ve got their buddy that did this, or they know of this other company, their competitors doing
this. They think they need to do it too. And that’s probably the worst thing they can do.
Karl: [00:23:57] I’ll offer up, if I could add to that, for business owners out there. There’s three
numbers I’ll share, 4, 8 and 12%. When I look at a P&L for a business and I’m looking at trend
over time, I notice how much percentage of their revenue to spending on marketing and I look at
their growth rate. And what’s often, if you want to benchmark for mature business, that’s been
around and known for a while. Some of those can get away with between 4 to 8% spend on
marketing. If they want to grow. If they want to stay flat. They don’t have to spend on marketing,
but if they want to grow their top line revenue, 4 to 8% is what your competitors, what other
people are spending normally grow. If you’re a new business or you’re a business that needs
some explaining or new to an area you’re talking about 8 to 12%, range depending. If your
product is known, but you’re a new company offering something that’s known, you might be
able to get away with 8%. If you’re offering something new and no one else is offering it and you
want them to build awareness. You’re talking close to 12%. I offer those numbers because it is
extremely consistent looking at the spend on marketing correlating to how people grow their
business. Now, the ones you’ll always have a family friend that says I spend nothing on
marketing and my business keeps growing. That is the anomalies. They’re innovating, they’re
doing something different, or there’s something that’s giving them a competitive advantage. Or
they are marketing without spending. So talking about personal branding, talking about other
ways to gain audience without spending for it. Can you comment a little bit on that?
Lisa: [00:25:48] Yes, sure. This is one thing that as we have been in this situation, we’re seeing
a lot more people on LinkedIn. I don’t know if you’re active on LinkedIn or not, but we’re seeing
a lot more of that. And there’s a lot of people that don’t know how to use LinkedIn and how they
can really leverage it. So, you know, here’s the thing that I tell people, particularly when you’re in
an industry that there’s a lot of other people that do what you do. People don’t want to do
business with business. They want to do business with people. And so what makes your
business different from every other business out there is you. And so being able to feature your
zone of genius, being able to show your authority, your expertise, your credibility. One way to do
that is to really work through a personal branding process. Now, personal branding is not all
about saying, Hey, look at me. It’s not about becoming an Instagram influencer. It’s not about
being any of those. It’s really being very strategic about understanding. How do you show up
online? Is that how you want to show up online? What do you need to do to shift that if it’s not
where you want it to be and how can you position yourself as a credible expert that people
would trust to do business with you? So that is something that I really encourage people to do.
Whether you work for a company or whether you own your own business. The only thing you
own when you leave your business is your personal brand. So it’s well worth the investment to
spend the time to do that.
Karl: [00:27:19] I love that you mentioned that. I’m curious about your thoughts on integrating
your personal brand or your personas, if you want to call it, professionally and personally.
LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, all of these, Tic Tok. They have different use cases for
different application. But I’ve seen more people, especially in 2020, there’s a lot of issues out
there that people are commenting on. Whether it’s social justice or gender or race or other
political items, things about climate change, and others. People are voicing their opinions across
spectrums that’s interweaved with their expertise in their business. Any thoughts on how to
manage that. And is that a good idea or? Well, what do you, what would you advise people to
do with that?
Lisa: [00:28:13] You know, it’s what I advise business owners is what I’ve always told my
children. Anything that you’ve put out there online will follow you and could be found. And if it’s
something that you aren’t willing to put on a billboard and have your grandmothers see, then
don’t put out there. If it’s not something that you’re not willing to share in your next job interview,
don’t put it out there. There are filters, but still there are way to, you know, there are ways to get
through those. And you just always have to be conscious of whatever you are putting out there
represents who you are, and it does follow you. So there are appropriate channels. And then
there are ones that maybe you need to just have a conversation with a friend.
Karl: [00:29:00] I’m curious about, there’s a professional sphere, but there’s all these businesses
that are coming up in this entertainment mixed with business. So you could take the example of
a local ice cream shop or fitness business, where it is a business and they have customers, but
it’s also a culture and a group and a community that they’re building that reflect certain beliefs
and their personal. How can those types of businesses leverage both social media and how
they brand themselves?
Lisa: [00:29:35] Right. So it’s a great opportunity and I don’t want to, you know, imply that you
always have to stay buttoned up. I think you have to really look at who is your ideal client. Who
are you trying to attract? If you are on LinkedIn, you’re trying to attract a different crowd than
what you’ll probably find on Instagram, or Pinterest, or Tic Tok, or Facebook. Those all have a
different feel to it and different clientele. So if you are an ice cream shop and you’ve got music
going on, you’ve got certain culture or whatever, they’re trying to attract the audience. They
need to be who they are. They need to be authentic. They need to be transparent. But they also
need to be respectful of their audience.
Karl: [00:30:17] I’m also curious, just comment and maybe Rico as well. When you interact with
people online in a lot of your publications, in your content out there, have you found examples of
people doing it really well? Can you give us an example where you saw people blend those
different personas well online?
Lisa: [00:30:42] I can’t think of one person that comes to mind right now, but here’s what I see
as a trend. It’s people who are sharing their expertise. They’re generous and they’re humble. So
they’re out there, they’re being servant leaders. They understand what their customers need.
They’re very generous with it because they believe in the law of reciprocity. You know, if I give
to you and I’m giving freely, and it’s this valuable, imagine what you’re going to get if you pay to
work with me. I mean, that’s the message that they’re sending. So I think that is a great lesson
for all of us, is we are here to serve in our businesses. We’re here to serve our clients and one
way to attract clients is to let them see what you’re about. Let them experience you before they
pay you anything. I think that would be a good model to follow.
Karl: [00:31:41] That would probably be about 1% of politicians by my guess.
Lisa: [00:31:45] Yes. They don’t fall into that trend very easily.
Karl: [00:31:52] That’s fabulous advice. Well, I’d like to, if folks wanted to get in touch with you
and learn more about just marketing and ways that they could improve for themselves, what are
some ways folks can get in touch with you?
Lisa: [00:32:06] Yeah, absolutely. So I am on LinkedIn. It’s Lisa McGuire. I’m also
Lisa@LisaMcGuire.com. And they can also call 678-520-7660.
Karl: [00:32:26] Well, as we’re getting into fall and you’re starting to get busy with helping clients
grow. Are there anything you have coming up or what do you have coming up over the next
quarter? What are your plans?
Lisa: [00:32:36] Yeah, so I’m really excited. I am a StoryBrand certified guide, so I’m affiliated
with the StoryBrand company and they have a sector of their business called Business Made
Simple, BusinessMadeSimple.com. And so, it is a series of online courses. They really propose
it’s the same thing as an MBA only we’re going to save you $50,000 from that MBA. It’s a one
year subscription or when you’re licensed for $275. And they have courses on creating your
mission, marketing message, productivity, communication, scaling your business. So I am being
certified as one of their Business Made Simple coaches. So right now I’m in the process of
clients, coaching clients, or really business growth advising is what I do. I think there’s a lot of
coaches out there. And a lot of coaches end up being cheerleaders. This is not the case. I really
believe on providing frameworks and valuable tools that we can help make a difference in your
business grow. Whether it’s in revenue, whether it’s in culture, whether it’s just the business
owner growing as a business leader and becoming more proficient in what they do.
Karl: [00:33:50] Oh, that’s fabulous. As you mentioned when we started, a lot of people get into
business to do what they love and that’s their operational expertise and they started making
money there. I think the lesson is to transform or to grow into becoming a true sustainable
long-lasting business, you’ve got to evolve. And so the other pieces in the tool belt that you’ve
got to build is some financial smarts, some marketing smarts, how to recruit people, some HR
smart to really become a fully well-rounded business leader. And if there’s a way for them to get
it without spending $50,000 and taking a year or two off to get an MBA. I think that’s a good ROI
on investment. So thank you for sharing that.
Lisa: [00:34:36] Absolutely, yeah. Thank you so much.
Karl: [00:34:41] I want to thank Lisa McGuire, who is a business growth advisor and a marketing
consultant with Open Window Marketing. Thank you for your insights for sharing your
experience and to help every business owner figuring out little nuggets of things they can do to
improve their business. I’m Karl Barham with Transworld Business Advisors of Atlanta
Peachtree, and we are going to continue to help business owners post this shutdown period of
the pandemic. Figure out their best way to grow their business, improve. We can do that by
helping them to franchise their business. We can do that by helping them to acquire their
business. And for those that are ready to relax on a beach somewhere, we can help them find a
buyer and help them get their business sold. So you can reach me at KBarham@TWorld.com
or you can visit us on our website at www.TWorld.com/AtlantaPeachtree. Hey Rico, why don’t
you tell us what you’ve got coming up.
Rico: [00:35:39] Sure. First, I want to tell people that I totally enjoy talking to Karl off-camera
because I learn a lot from Karl, okay? I own my own business or businesses and, invaluable
insight from Karl and along with our other guests. I mean, Lisa has some good, great, valuable
insight here. And you know, we’ve done what, 40 of these?
Karl: [00:36:00] We’re up to 47. We’re going to hit 50 soon.
Rico: [00:36:06] There’s a ton of sage advice out there that we’ve learned. So I’m always happy
to be on a show like this, where we get more because I’m constantly learning. I own my own
business marketing, MightyRockets.com and everyone that watches this show knows that. We
publish Peachtree Corners Magazine which is coming out again every six weeks we sort of wrap
ourselves around the next issue and we put this out six times a year. So the next issue is
coming out around the first week of October. And we’re going to have great backyard retreats.
We’re profiling five local backyards that we feel are exceptional for a variety of reasons. So
we’re doing that. We’re doing a pets and their people give away, and that’s going to be a pull out
in the next issue as well. And we’re going to have probably get 4 or 5,000 pictures of people and
their pets that have been submitting. So we have this contest going right now. So if you haven’t
entered, go to our Facebook page or to our website, enter it. All you have to do is submit a
picture of you and your pet. And, you know, tell us a little bit about you all. And then we’re going
to pick three winners at the end of that. So we’re doing that. We’re doing a bunch of other
stories within that publication. It’s going to be chock-full things as it usually is. And you know, I’m
still working with clients as well, doing some of their marketing online content and stuff. So if you
need to reach me and you want to be able to do some of that work and you need someone to
do it, MightyRockets.com is the place to go. LivingInPeachtreeCorners.com is the place to find
the magazine and our family of podcasts. And I just launched the CapitalistSage.com website
just to begin exhibits. So it’s shallow on content right now. We’re adding all the podcasts that
we’re doing, that we’ve done. So you’ll find some of that there. We’re going to be adding over
the next few weeks. So check that out, leave your name and email address. And certainly you’ll
be reached back out to it again.
Karl: [00:38:09] And if I can, I want to spark an idea in honor of the theme of today, marketing. I
think you’re still accepting ads. If somebody would like to do ads for the magazine, you can
reach out for that? So for people in Peachtree Corners surrounding area, if you want to increase
your visibility, traditional marketing methods also still work. But you can reach out to Lisa to help
you with your messaging and Rico, if you’d like to have an ad added.
Rico: [00:38:38] So if you do, our deadline is, well our deadline is September 22nd for the print
magazine for the October, November issue. But you know, we come out six times a year. Plus, I
mean, it’s not just print. You get exposure in a variety of places, you know, online on our
Facebook page on Instagram, on Twitter, on LinkedIn. So if you’re an advertiser with us and
you have that type of package, we’re providing some of that online as well.
Karl: [00:39:05] So if you didn’t get the message, post pandemic, your customers have changed.
You need to talk to them. So take advantage. Thank you everybody for joining us today on the
Capitalist Sage podcast, you’ll find us on all of your streaming channels. iTunes, Spreaker,
iHeartRadio, on YouTube, on Facebook. Just go and explore Capitalist Sage. And, you know,
pick up something, apply it, and we’ll be happy to continue to give you great episodes. Thank
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